Doubling trouble

[Bass Catcher]

I'm experiencing electric & upright doubling frustration.

I'm finding it really hard to stay fresh on both instruments. It seems like whenever I'm mostly playing upright - my electric chops go to hell and the vice versa. I'd really like to be able to stay in shape on both instruments - but I can't seem to make it work lately. Between working full-time, rehearsals and gigging I hardly get any time for myself to practice. It's hard enough to keep fresh on one bass let alone two!

Does anyone else share the same dilema?

[PJEBassist]

I know exactly how you feel. I just work on my upright chops since I know they'll serve me better down the road. Then again, I'm a student in high in his senior year getting ready for college. You're on your own with a job and everything. I find it hard to find time to practice 3 hours a day...you find it hard to practice period! It's a struggle, I know man.

[Marcus Johnson]

I've found it easiest to just recognize the fact that they're two completely different instruments. Though I almost never play the slab anymore, when I do, I just try to put on the "slab hat" and play it like a slab. It's like method acting, and fun for me to pretend that I'm an electric bassist for a night. Same as if I pick up a guitar, or an uke, or whatever. I just try to wrap my head around the zeitgeist of the electric bass, and it usually comes out naturally.

Geez, that sounded like a bunch of new age crap. I don't know how else to describe it, though.

[CamMcIntyre]

Marcus Johnson nailed it.

I'm a fairly young doubler. I have about 9 years in on electric, and 5 years of upright playing under my belt. When i thought about upright as a big electric i was sunk.

Once i started to think of them as cousins rather than brothers it started to make a lot more sense. This may sound tripped out, but humor me. They are both the bass voices, are tuned in 4ths [in my case], and typically serve a nearly identical role. They have completley different scale lengths, ways of speaking, require different muscle groups, and tonal characteristics.

Something that helped me get a better grip of the difference was learning a familiar tune on both. I used the fingerings most appropriate to the instrument i was playing. It helped.

Take it easy.

[Freddels]

Sort of like playing Ping Pong and Tennis

Same basic rules but the playing area is a different size.

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by Freddels

Sort of like playing Ping Pong and Tennis

Same basic rules but the playing area is a different size.

True, but unless you have ridiculously long fingers like ET, stick with Simandl(or whatever your flavor)fingerings for electric and you should be OK. My whole thing in doubling is getting as many things alike for both instruments as possible to make the transition easy. Like some other guys, I played electric only for a few years until the upright interest started, now 30 years later, I'm doing 90% upright but have need to pull out the side-bass occasionally for a session or gig and can't afford to be caught stumbling around. The fingering plan wasn't deliberate but came about when studying string bass and finally came up with an organized fingering system that bled over into my Fender playing.

The idea of studying later in one's career is nothing new. Think of all the singers or brass players you hear about that blow out their voices or chops then go to a highly sought teacher or coach to learn some "correct" techniques to help save their ability to perform. Doing this kind of thing early in the process will certainly go a long way to stave off some hard times down the road. I can see where, though, someone could be so far into legit playing, particularly early on, and it having an adverse effect on their jazz side. Just gotta have a foot in both camps if you want to do both.

Ike

[brianrost]

Originally Posted by Bass Catcher

Does anyone else share the same dilema?

I only practice on the DB (except when I'm learning new songs for BG gigs).

Regular gigging keeps my electric chops up just fine.

[ryco]

The trouble is the two are nothing alike! The transfer of physical knowledge just doesn't work.

In college I spent 5 - 6+ hrs trying to learn dbl bass and it was a slow process. One I never completed because I dropped out after two years and didn't have access to a DB anymore - nor the dinero.

But in that time of switching back and forth between different ensembles (band (EB), jazz choir(DB), combos(both)) I found the two just didn't compliment each other in any relation.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by ryco

The trouble is the two are nothing alike! The transfer of physical knowledge just doesn't work.

++++++++++1!!!!!!!!


I just have to change mindsets just like when I play guitar, piano, drums, violin, viola, cello (I used to teach school) or whatever.

I think the bottom line is you have to decide what instrument you want to be really good at. I never practice EB. Never. I don't practice anything but DB. I double sometimes because I get hired to but I don't advertise myself as an slab guy. I only advertise myself as a DB player. There are only very special guys that can be good at several instruments (that include sax players that play 'all the saxes'). I am not one of them.

[christ andronis]

I actually started on electric bass, then later in life studied DB. What I'm finding is that my technique on electric has gotten better (stamina?) and I'm MUCH more judicious in the notes I choose to play. Definitely less notes but, IMO, much more meaningful to whatever music I'm playing. I really believe playing the upright makes it so.

[fingers]

That what I love about DB. Because of the technical limitations of the instrument you actually have to think about what you play more. You can just noodle at light speed like a guitar or sax.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by fingers

I never practice EB. Never. I don't practice anything but DB.

Yea. Same for me. Don't need any more practice time on the EB. Did that shed time years ago and it's like riding a bike for me.

Playing the DB is a whole nuther thing. Gotta practice it daily. Playing DB well is a life work. I don't feel that way about EB.

By the second tune on the EB I'm usually in the groove. I can switch back and forth on a gig and find the sweet spot for both but every time I pick up the DB I feel at home. When I'm doubling I'm always trying to figure out how to keep the DB in my hands.

Several gigs used to be double gigs and now I just leave the EB at home. I've found ways to make the DB work.

Having figured out how to make the DB sound good loud without bringing out the EB or the EUB has been a huge move forward in my playing life. My bandmates love the big bass and don't want me playing anything else.

[bassist1962]

Originally Posted by christ andronis

I actually started on electric bass, then later in life studied DB. What I'm finding is that my technique on electric has gotten better (stamina?) and I'm MUCH more judicious in the notes I choose to play. Definitely less notes but, IMO, much more meaningful to whatever music I'm playing. I really believe playing the upright makes it so.

+1

[ryco]

... and then there's Stanley Clarke....

[fingers]

Stanley Clarke is the reason I picked up the bass. My dad used to listen to School Days all the time. I didn't know what 'that sound' was until junior high when I heard someone playing an electric bass. Without him I might not be playing the bass today.

Truth be told... I'm not a huge fan of his DB playing.

[musicman5string]

I used to try to do maybe an hour or more on upright and an hour or more on electric in the same day. It wasn't working for me. I find it better to practice 2 hours one day on upright and 2 hours one day on electric. It's not a perfect solution, but then there really isn't one.
There was a few years where I didn't practice electric at all and just did upright, but then I woke up to find a whole new generation of players that were playing circles around me. So the electric practice began again.
I don't think you can transfer over upright fingerings/technique to electric and be taken seriously by a good electric player.
I really have no idea how Patitucci keeps such a high standard on both; he's just one in a million.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

I really have no idea how Patitucci keeps such a high standard on both; he's just one in a million.

+1!

[jazzbass72]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

I really have no idea how Patitucci keeps such a high standard on both; he's just one in a million.

He just practices a lot (to this day, married with young daughters) and loves both instruments equally. Easy, innit?

Most upright players would be more proficient on the electric bass if they spent more time practicing and loving the instrument, as opposed to trashing it. Just my $0.02 :-)

-MP

[droo]

Originally Posted by christ andronis

I actually started on electric bass, then later in life studied DB. What I'm finding is that my technique on electric has gotten better (stamina?) and I'm MUCH more judicious in the notes I choose to play.

Same happened for me - I actually now find myself using 1-2-4 fingering on the EB when down in the low frets. If you're playing a lot of groove-based stuff you can get a lot out of that without having to change position
But if you do need to change position, suddenly you are used to moving your left hand to exactly the right place for the new notes without looking at it etc...
Good point about the stamina - you do a 2 hour gig on the DB, then the next day you pick up the slab and it seems almost like the strings press themselves down on the fingerboard

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by jazzbass72

He just practices a lot (to this day, married with young daughters) and loves both instruments equally. Easy, innit?

Most upright players would be more proficient on the electric bass if they spent more time practicing and loving the instrument, as opposed to trashing it. Just my $0.02 :-)

-MP

Amen on that, Marco. Also, If you're serious about doubling, there are some physical things with the basses you can do to help make it happen. For example, having an easy-to-play set up on your upright and a wider neck electric with higher action than you would normally have. Also, hold the electric neck more at an upward angle to get closer to the vertical feel of your upright.

iah