Ed Fuqua's new book Walking Bassics

[iona bass]

ed fuqua:
- pg. 18, section 2, in the blues chorus labelled "F", the last bar of the form is an F7 (#9) with a "G natural" in the bass. is this a copying error? ( it should be a Gb)...

- listening to "track #10" ( in a mellow tone ), on the Ddim7 chord, in the 26th bar of the form, you play a "C natural" in that measure ( both times) (it should be a B natural or C#).

thanks for your time.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

I just created a public Playlist in Spotify.com that contains most of the recommendations in Ed's Suggested Listening List on page 15 of his book. They did not have Live In Paris or Live In Tokyo, and there were just a few tracks from Motor City Session and The Arrival of Victor Feldman. Otherwise, all there including several albums by Ray Brown. You can listen to this list with a free account.

Walking Bassics by Ed Fuqua - Ed's Suggested Listening List

This is fantastic - thank you!

[Ed Fuqua]

Thanks UB!

[iona bass]

Originally Posted by iona bass

ed fuqua:
- pg. 18, section 2, in the blues chorus labelled "F", the last bar of the form is an F7 (#9) with a "G natural" in the bass. is this a copying error? ( it should be a Gb)...

- listening to "track #10" ( in a mellow tone ), on the Ddim7 chord, in the 26th bar of the form, you play a "C natural" in that measure ( both times) (it should be a B natural or C#).

thanks for your time.

(please understand that my comments are not meant to attack or disparage "ed fuqua" in any way, whatsoever. these are just my observations and comments based upon his recent book, my 39 years of playing, and my 15+ years of teaching).

- in the "section 1, page 5", all 3 "Bb blues" choruses, show the vi7 chord as ( Gmin 7th). this chord, in this style of music is, most often, a G7b9, functioning as a V7 of ii7( Cmin7). i'm puzzled as to why the author choose "Gmin7" instead of "G7b9".

- in "section 1, page 5, the 3rd example of "Bb blues", on measure 5 (Eb7), the "D natural" on beat four, is an unusual note choice, as it is not part of the chord, and not used chromatically,( for ex. - connecting to the Db, which would make stronger harmonic sense). i try to have my students avoid "mixing" dominant 7th and major 7th sounds on a chord which is clearly one or the other.

students are often mystified when first confronted with "walking bass" - i always want to convey how important their note choice is to the harmony, esp. when it comes to 3rds and 7ths. my mantra is : if the pianist/guitarist should die during a tune, your bassline and the melody/(solo) should create a "counterpoint" which clearly outlines the basic (agreed upon) harmony.

thanks for your time and interest.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

i certainly won't speak for Ed, but... many people (I include myself among these) consider the layers of melodic/harmonic counterpoint to be more independent and dictated by the creation of meaningful lines and resolutions that by a strict adherence to chord/scale relationships. My guess is that something akin to this principle is at the root of the observations you're making.

[iona bass]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

i certainly won't speak for Ed, but... many people (I include myself among these) consider the layers of melodic/harmonic counterpoint to be more independent and dictated by the creation of meaningful lines and resolutions that by a strict adherence to chord/scale relationships. My guess is that something akin to this principle is at the root of the observations you're making.

chris - thanks. just to clarify - so you are "ok" with the bassline "using" both "7ths" on a chord that is clearly one or the other?
i rarely hear the pianist/guitarist/harmony intentionally mix/co-mingle(?) 7ths in the harmony.
sounds like we have slightly different interpretations of the phase "meaningful lines". (smiley face here).

as always, thanks for your time.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm not looking at the book, but in general, if there's a D natural on beat 4 of an Eb7 chord that resolves to an Eb, then I would simply hear that as a leading (or neighbor, depending on where it came from) tone in the bass. Again, not speaking for Ed, but I consider the bass line to be an independent melodic counter line to the melody/solo line on top. In my conception of improvised jazz lines, the logic of chromatic notes that resolve is aurally apparent, and doesn't really need to be defended. In cases like that, it's not about what the note is, but rather more about the gravity and inevitability of the resolution. Jazz is full of momentary dissonances that resolve. To me, that's part of what makes it so interesting. Analyzing notes out of a vertical slice of music doesn't tell the whole story if the resolution is not included.

[iona bass]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I'm not looking at the book, but in general, if there's a D natural on beat 4 of an Eb7 chord that resolves to an Eb, then I would simply hear that as a leading (or neighbor, depending on where it came from) tone in the bass. Again, not speaking for Ed, but I consider the bass line to be an independent melodic counter line to the melody/solo line on top. In my conception of improvised jazz lines, the logic of chromatic notes that resolve is aurally apparent, and doesn't really need to be defended. In cases like that, it's not about what the note is, but rather more about the gravity and inevitability of the resolution. Jazz is full of momentary dissonances that resolve. To me, that's part of what makes it so interesting. Analyzing notes out of a vertical slice of music doesn't tell the whole story if the resolution is not included.

chris - thanks, i think i now have a better understanding of your concept.
i was referring ( as you mentioned), to ed's book, which is a introduction to "walking", and i'm concerned that the book conveys some ideas of "note choice" that might encourage the "rampant chromaticism" that i often encounter with younger players. it often a leads to a kind of "duct tape" concept of basslines, ( too many half-steps), as opposed to actually being able to clearly outline the harmony in a thoughtful, melodic way. later on, i encourage them to "stretch", especially intervalically (sp?), that is, not just diatonic "connect the dots" type lines starting on the "root".

also - i like your use of the term "gravity".

thanks for your time and your thoughtful response.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by iona bass

(please understand that my comments are not meant to attack or disparage "ed fuqua" in any way, whatsoever. these are just my observations and comments based upon his recent book, my 39 years of playing, and my 15+ years of teaching).

- in the "section 1, page 5", all 3 "Bb blues" choruses, show the vi7 chord as ( Gmin 7th). this chord, in this style of music is, most often, a G7b9, functioning as a V7 of ii7( Cmin7). i'm puzzled as to why the author choose "Gmin7" instead of "G7b9".

- in "section 1, page 5, the 3rd example of "Bb blues", on measure 5 (Eb7), the "D natural" on beat four, is an unusual note choice, as it is not part of the chord, and not used chromatically,( for ex. - connecting to the Db, which would make stronger harmonic sense). i try to have my students avoid "mixing" dominant 7th and major 7th sounds on a chord which is clearly one or the other.

students are often mystified when first confronted with "walking bass" - i always want to convey how important their note choice is to the harmony, esp. when it comes to 3rds and 7ths. my mantra is : if the pianist/guitarist should die during a tune, your bassline and the melody/(solo) should create a "counterpoint" which clearly outlines the basic (agreed upon) harmony.

thanks for your time and interest.

Originally Posted by iona bass

chris - thanks, i think i now have a better understanding of your concept.
i was referring ( as you mentioned), to ed's book, which is a introduction to "walking", and i'm concerned that the book conveys some ideas of "note choice" that might encourage the "rampant chromaticism" that i often encounter with younger players. it often a leads to a kind of "duct tape" concept of basslines, ( too many half-steps), as opposed to actually being able to clearly outline the harmony in a thoughtful, melodic way. later on, i encourage them to "stretch", especially intervalically (sp?), that is, not just diatonic "connect the dots" type lines starting on the "root".

also - i like your use of the term "gravity".

thanks for your time and your thoughtful response.

I have the book in front of me just now -- if I had to guess why Gm7 rather than G7b9 is used in an introductory text, I would say it's just to keep it all as simple as possible while maintining a jazz-blues (as opposed to a "straight" I-IV-V) feel. It's not a text on jazz harmony.

On the question of the choice of a D on beat four of measure 5, it's simply a chromatic leading tone to the root played on beat 1 of measure 6, just as Ed says in the text immediately above that chorus, and as Chris pointed out. Hardly "rampant chromaticism"; every note choice is spelled out in the text -- connecting roots with scale, chord, and leading tones. All very straightforward, and harmonically strong.

[iona bass]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

I have the book in front of me just now -- if I had to guess why Gm7 rather than G7b9 is used in an introductory text, I would say it's just to keep it all as simple as possible while maintining a jazz-blues (as opposed to a "straight" I-IV-V) feel. It's not a text on jazz harmony.

On the question of the choice of a D on beat four of measure 5, it's simply a chromatic leading tone to the root played on beat 1 of measure 6, just as Ed says in the text immediately above that chorus, and as Chris pointed out. Hardly "rampant chromaticism"; every note choice is spelled out in the text -- connecting roots with scale, chord, and leading tones. All very straightforward, and harmonically strong.

GrowlerBox-
two points:
1. your statement "It's not a text on jazz harmony" is exactly the problem here. new players need to become immersed in the harmonic/melodic language of jazz. writing a book that seeks to explain "Walking Basslines" without presenting any information or guidance regarding "jazz harmony" is, at best, less than ideal. i'm still puzzled by the author's choice of his chord changes for the Bb blues.( and C blues, as well).

2. regarding the "D on beat 4...." the author recommends using the "chromatic leading tone a half-step away from the root on beat 4, RIGHT BEFORE THE CHORD CHANGES", not in the middle of two bars of the same chord ( Eb7). the D natural used within the Eb7 harmony, ( not as a "leading tone" to gravitate to a NEW chord change), is not very strong, or straightforward. i strongly discourage my students from this approach ( "within the Eb harmony.." of course). just to be clear - i think the "half-step" from above/below is good when the chord changes.

this same issue appears in the "Track 1" example - at the 0:50 mark, on an Eb7 chord, the author walks down (4 quarter notes) Eb, D natural(!), C natural, Cb... arriving at the Bb7 chord. this is the kind of weak, harmonically ignorant "chromaticism" that i'm concerned with.

thanks for your comments and interest.

[GrowlerBox]

OK -- I see what you're getting at. While it's not for me to defend Ed's book, as much as I like it, I suppose certain editorial choices much be made with a certain goal for a certain audience in mind.

It seems to me to be a valid choice to start beginners off seeing progressions one measure at a time; Ed goes on later in the book to encourage thinking in longer phrases (e.g. p 13). There is always an emphasis on chordal and scalar movement; chromaticism is discussed as embellishment, albeit sometimes extended, and then typically as part of a longer phrase.

Hopefully, Ed will look in and shed some actual light.

[Treyzer]

Hey "I own a?" How about filling out your profile just a little bit. What kind of a bass do you own? Do you play it? Do you play gigs for money? Maybe you could let us hear some of your work. I'm sure it would be amazing or at least illuminating.

Hey, aren't you the guy that turned the Garrison bootleg thread into a real dust up? It was the 4th post in that thread if memory serves. Seems like you're on quite a little crusade here at TBDB.

One thing is evident, you have an extraordinary amount of time on your hands to come up with this stuff. Man if you shed half as much you do this kind of stuff you must be a monster!

[swmmojo]

Thanks Ukiah Bass!!!! I'm diggin' the playlist you created (copied/pasted below). Really great.

Walking Bassics by Ed Fuqua - Ed's Suggested Listening List

I don't know much but I do know Ed's book is really helping me in a huge way.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by iona bass

i'm still puzzled by the author's choice of his chord changes for the Bb blues.( and C blues, as well).

Simple blues with a V-IV-I turnaround.

2. regarding the "D on beat 4...." the author recommends using the "chromatic leading tone a half-step away from the root on beat 4, RIGHT BEFORE THE CHORD CHANGES", not in the middle of two bars of the same chord ( Eb7). the D natural used within the Eb7 harmony, ( not as a "leading tone" to gravitate to a NEW chord change), is not very strong, or straightforward. I strongly discourage my students from this approach....

You are welcome to discourage your students from this approach. I believe that the point in the book is simply for the beginner to use leading tones to lead to downbeats, which is a different and (perhaps) simpler aesthetic.

...this is the kind of weak, harmonically ignorant "chromaticism" that i'm concerned with.

I hate to play the heavy here, but in response I can only say as a moderator that this is the kind of socially ignorant (or blatantly disingenuous - I don't have enough information yet to decide) internet posting that I'm concerned with. Consider the scenario: A long time and well known forum member who posts under his real name, and whose playing everyone enjoys and respects, publishes a book on very basic bass line construction. Certainly the book is not considered "above all reproach". However, when an anonymous person on the internet starts parsing and nitpicking individual note choices by way of criticism, that can lead to two possible scenarios for our forum:

1) It could lead to an unpleasant distance urination contest in which the forum members who like and respect the author's playing - and who appreciate what they consider to be the vast wealth of information and experience he's shared here at this site over the past decade + of the site's existence - get annoyed at the prospect of a newer member trying to poke holes in this member's musical choices from behind a cloak of anonymity, and lash out accordingly. Think about it: is this kind of reaction not easily forseeable? In cases like this, the simple fact of the choice of anonymity combined with the direct criticism and inflammatory verbiage like "Weak" and "chromatically ignorant" makes everyone immediately suspect that the person making such comments is more interested in stirring up internet drama than in actually having a meaningful discussion of the different approaches to bass line construction. Again - how does this type of behavior from a position of anonymity in any way help anything here if the intent is not to create , shall we say, a case of "cyber-unpleasantness"? And if this is not the intention, then someone should say out loud the following; Long time members - before replying to this potentially inflammatory statement, please mentally append the following disclaimer to anything an anonymous member writes: "...said the anonymous person on the internet" There. Someone had to say it. I think this will help place things in the proper perspective. And in case anyone wonders, I think it is important I be the one to say this since I will be the one responsible for cleaning up any messes that a misunderstanding of this basic concept will promote.

2) The second scenario is that a respectful and useful (especially for beginning students of the art) discussion about different approaches could take place. This is what should happen on this subject - but it won't happen if people are not open to listening to the other approaches in question.

By way of example, as a long time jazz theory instructor at several universities in the area, I do not ascribe to the notion that every chord symbol implies a specific scale in actual practice. (That is a discussion for another thread which I will be more than happy to participate in should it arise). Many of my colleagues, both at the university where i teach and in the summer workshops I've been a faculty member of for the past 17 years, feel differently about this subject. We never argue about this at all, because we actually play music together and because of this we respect the musical results that these differing approaches produce. In plainer language, when someone sounds good, I don't care if their approach to sounding good is not something I espouse. The proof is in the pudding, and there are many recipes. If, on the other hand, I don't like their pudding, I simply do not partake of it; in this case, I also quite understandably have no use for the recipe.

But here - to carry the analogy a step further - if someone is espousing a particular pudding recipe as superior, it stands to reason that anyone considering the recipe would want to first sample the pudding before deciding on the merits of the recipe. For this reason, I think it would be very helpful for the health of this thread that if the "pudding recipe" espoused by the book under discussion is to be questioned, samples of the results of the alternative recipe which another chef claims to be more informed and otherwise superior be available for comparison.

I will be monitoring this discussion carefully, since as I mentioned I am the person responsible for cleaning it up if it becomes contentious and/or disrespectful.

[damonsmith]

I don't have Ed's book, but he has more than proven himself worthy of respect in this area. In these online discussions the provenance of the information becomes relevant - Ed's information comes in a direct line from Lennie Tristano.

Adhering to the square note choices you suggest will make it sound like any other genre. It needs the chromatic movement AND chromatic harmony to actually sound like "jazz". Vanilla Basslines by Inoabas would be a different book than "Walking Bassics".
The bass needs it's own area in the music - as Reggie Workman says, "You need to bring something to the beach besides sand".

The little information you put out in the last discussion as well as this one strongly suggests you are out of your depth and need to study the history of jazz quite a bit more.
Filling out your profile could help dispel this notion.

[pbass888]

Eds book is the best. When i first got it i studied it, then went back and transcribed most exercises and songs, well worth the time ! I would highly recommend it! Ed is a great guy also met him once and was very helpful and went out of his way to make me feel comfortable.
Waiting for the sequel...

[Duce-hands]

Just ordered my copy, and I'm looking forward to spending time with the information and hopefully learning a bunch of new techniques.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by iona bass

these are just my observations and comments based my 39 years of playing, and my 15+ years of teaching).

As has been mentioned, many of us have heard Ed's work - so where can we hear your playing, to see how your approach works out?

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by iona bass

regarding the "D on beat 4...." the author recommends using the "chromatic leading tone a half-step away from the root on beat 4, RIGHT BEFORE THE CHORD CHANGES", not in the middle of two bars of the same chord ( Eb7). the D natural used within the Eb7 harmony, ( not as a "leading tone" to gravitate to a NEW chord change), is not very strong, or straightforward. i strongly discourage my students from this approach ( "within the Eb harmony.." of course). just to be clear - i think the "half-step" from above/below is good when the chord changes.

Really? Your ear doesn't understand the function of the D natural in that example? Curious...

this same issue appears in the "Track 1" example - at the 0:50 mark, on an Eb7 chord, the author walks down (4 quarter notes) Eb, D natural(!), C natural, Cb... arriving at the Bb7 chord. this is the kind of weak, harmonically ignorant "chromaticism" that i'm concerned with.

I seem to have misplaced my CD but in the written example there is no D natural walking down to the Bb7 chord.

[iona bass]

"this same issue appears in the "Track 1" example - at the 0:50 mark, on an Eb7 chord, the author walks down (4 quarter notes) Eb, D natural(!), C natural, Cb... arriving at the Bb7 chord."

jallenbass,
I'm referring to the audio "Track #1"(not the "written" Bb blues). This audio example ("Track#1") is available thru the link in the original post. It is located under the heading "Sample Pages".


Thanks.