Eugene Levinson - School of Agility Fingering Question

[ninnlangel]

Hi All,

I'm working on some of the fingerings from this book to have more flexibility in my soloing, and I am finding one particular thing very strange. I know some students of his read this forum, so I'm hoping for some insight on this :

In Ab major, for the last octave, he always uses this fingerging :

1 on Ab
3 on Bb
1 on C
2 on Db
T on Eb
1 on F
2 on G
3 on Ab

I find the shift from Db to Eb very strange, and I was wondering if there is a reason for this. I would tend to use this instead :

1 on Ab
3 on Bb
T on C
1 on Db
3 on Eb
1 (or T) on F
2 on G
3 on Ab

I'd love to hear some ideas about this. Both from Jazzers and Classical players. I'm mostly a Jazz player, but I was classicaly trained before, and worked with the petracchi methods a lot.

Thanks,

NL

[jallenbass]

Looks like a normal fingering to me. So does yours.

[TomGale]

so does;
14, 12, 13 12. OR, if you are in a hurry,
(D string)
Ab 2
Bb 4
(G string)
C 1
Db 2
Eb 4 (time to shift!)
F T
G 1
Ab 2.
All four work well depending on the musical circumstances...
I love this stuff!
Tom Gale
ASODB.com

[Hector Wolff]

I'm a classical guy (mostly) and for what it's worth I would do:
1-4, 2-4, 1-4, 2-3

(I could use T-1 for the last two notes, but it seems totally unnecessary.)

I generally practice each single string scale with two fingerings depending on which finger starts the scale.

(If I happen to start the scale with 2, then I treat the rest of the scale as if it started on 4.)

The Ab scale on the G string is always going to start with finger 1 (in HP), so it is just a matter of whether I want to go 1-4 or advance 1-1 on the first two notes.

[jallenbass]

Tom and Hector - maybe I'm wrong but NL appears to be talking about the 3rd octave...

[EFischer1]

It is perhaps because, and this is a total shot in the dark, you are uncomfortable shifting from 2 to the thumb. I would try practicing just that shift (alla Orin O'Brien) in isolation and then putting it back into the scale. I think that you will find that after a few days the shift is much more natural.

[Justin K-ski]

The idea of Levinson's style is to have fingerings that are both technical and musical. Playing Ab - Db with that fingering allows you to keep each tetra chord under one shift. The fingering you suggest is probably in the book somewhere, but that fingering might be more condusive to another situation.

[ninnlangel]

Indeed, I was talking about the third octave.

2 to Thumb is definitely not my best shift, though going back down, Thumb to 2 is worse, but I just find this fingering to be very difficult for something that I can already do very well differently. The reason I asked is because he uses this solution prominently, whereas I would have imagined it as a special "odd" fingering.

Anyway, thanks for your input. If someone knows exactly why he does this, I'd love to hear it. To me it still seems impractical, though I've been working at it a lot (isolated shifting included of course), and I am really curious to know what it favors (or if he has ridiculously small hands or somethings like that )

[EFischer1]

Originally Posted by ninnlangel

2 to Thumb is definitely not my best shift, though going back down, Thumb to 2 is worse, but I just find this fingering to be very difficult for something that I can already do very well differently. The reason I asked is because he uses this solution prominently, whereas I would have imagined it as a special "odd" fingering.

I definately hear where you're coming from. The point of the book, for me at least, is that once you get used to all of these "odd" fingerings, as well as shifting to and from "unusual" fingers, you find (ideally) all shifts come more naturally to you. My teacher always tells us to focus on slow, precise, relaxed shifts. I have found that learning to make unusual patterns seem natural has opened up a whole new world of fingering for me.

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by EFischer1

focus on slow, precise, relaxed shifts.

This is exactly what I was going to say. I don't find any shift physically odd or difficult anymore. The only obstacle for me is if I'm not hearing the interval correctly.

[ninnlangel]

Sounds good to me. Indeed working on uncomfortable shifts is always a good idea. 2 to Thumb is very odd to me, going up or down. I guess I need to work on it more.

Thanks for your input guys,

NL

[TomGale]

Whoops! Third octave? OK. It seems to me you first take the two most extreme patterns - the rapid one being;
T 1 2 3, T 1 2 3

The most melodic being;
1 2 12 1 2 12 (3 on passing tones, only)

Most things you play will be somewhere in between so you take what you need from either or both.
Tom Gale

[sibass89]

Like Justin said, Levinson is big about the break up scales into tetrachords, so he tries to keep the tetrachords in one position. You're just not comfortable with the shift. Practice shift by first moving your 2nd finger than as you're shifting, your thumb slides up behind the 2nd finger and replaces it.

Also, if you look at the arpeggios, they all end T-3 (on the last P4). If you compare the first fingering of every major scale with the major arpeggio, you will see why he uses the fingering he uses in the 3rd octave.

Good luck with the book.

[ninnlangel]

I don't see how using 1 - 3 and then 1 - 2 is "breaking up the scale into tetrachords". Am I missing some strange technique to do that without shifting ? To me the only tetrachord-respectful fingering is T 1 2 3 T 1 2 3 which I have used a lot already.

[Justin K-ski]

If you're playing a fast run + 1 2 3 is logical. However, if you're trying to be melodic and get a full, sonorous tone with a nice vibrato instead of the chicken farts that some players seem be willing to accept you need you hand's center of gravity to be close enough to the contact point so that the string is really into the fingerboard.

According to the boss the thumb should be an anchor and not moving around according to the finger. Try it! These fingerings will make a lot more sense.