French Grip: Italian v. French

anonymous0726 · #1 06-06-2006, 07:23 PM

Well, my journey along the arco path continues.

About 8 months ago I switched to French bow, and have no plans to switch back to German, unless I get a gig playing FFFFF low E's for hours at a time.

Coming from German, the Italian hold is the most natural place to start and has been working well for me. I've still been working on, as my friend Bruno translated from French for me, "Making the grandmother cry."

This week I've been messing around with the French hold and I believe that I've found the grandmother, and some more to boot. Getting your thumb up on the stick also seems to give you more dynamic and timbre control, as well as making the stick lighter and more nimble. Getting about 2/3's of the way out the stick with either hold, but more this one, makes 1/8th note detache bop lines a lot nicer sounding. Lower on the instrument there isn't as much of a difference, but in the second and third+ register the difference is great.

The Italian is far from scrapped, though, so don't misread what I'm saying. Both holds have their positive aspects. Italian allows a more direct, aggressive sound, volume and endurance.

I'll try to get some sound clips up over the next few days.

damonsmith · #2 06-07-2006, 01:36 AM

Is the Italian grip also called the Neopolitain? Thumb on the frog? Reggie Workman, Pattatucci and Thomas Martin use that also. I learned French bow first so have the standard french grip down pretty well. I now use both German and French grips on a German bow depending on the sound I want in the moment.
I have had some students who were having trouble with the french grip try that Neopolitain hold and it works out well in general.

Mixmasta J · #3 06-12-2006, 06:16 AM

I've never heard of the Italian grip

could you please expand upon this?

Anon2962 · #4 06-12-2006, 07:33 AM

i've been using the italian grip for about 2 years now, coming from french grip, and haven't looked back.

Mixmasta: both grips are on the french pattern bow, the 'italian' grip uses the thumb in the upper 'corner' of the c curve of the frog, further back than the more popular 'french' grip, where the frog meets the stick.

I found that i can draw a fuller tone from the bass, as well as having the option of 'easier' loud playing. After a few months i found that i could control more delicate bow strokes without a problem, maybe even easier than with the french grip.

Of course, a different bow holds will work best for different people.

One thing i'd recommend is using a shorter length bow when using italian grip - you gain an inch or more or playable hair at the frog with the italian grip, and so longer bows feel very very long, and really weird at the tip!

Ken Smith had a link showing photos the different bow holds...i can't seem to find it on his site right now tho..

Paul Warburton · #5 06-27-2006, 07:55 AM

The Italian grip is a new one on me.....where did you find that Ray?

anonymous0726 · #6 06-27-2006, 08:04 AM

I knew the grip before I knew the name. It's just holding the bow with your thumb all the way back in the curve of the frog instead of on the stick.

KSB - Ken Smith · #7 07-04-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor MacCarthy

i've been using the italian grip for about 2 years now, coming from french grip, and haven't looked back.

Mixmasta: both grips are on the french pattern bow, the 'italian' grip uses the thumb in the upper 'corner' of the c curve of the frog, further back than the more popular 'french' grip, where the frog meets the stick.

I found that i can draw a fuller tone from the bass, as well as having the option of 'easier' loud playing. After a few months i found that i could control more delicate bow strokes without a problem, maybe even easier than with the french grip.

Of course, a different bow holds will work best for different people.

One thing i'd recommend is using a shorter length bow when using italian grip - you gain an inch or more or playable hair at the frog with the italian grip, and so longer bows feel very very long, and really weird at the tip!

Ken Smith had a link showing photos the different bow holds...i can't seem to find it on his site right now tho..

The Link is in the Bow section/DB and the Alsatian Bow I have listed here; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...n/alsatian.htm
Scroll down for the pics. Sorry, but they only show the position of the thumb. Maybe one day I will get some more pics up showing the fingers in the frog and on the stick.

As far as length goes the finer French made Bows have about 21"-21 1/2" of playing length when the hair is tightened. Those German made French Bows that are longer and have smaller heads will do more to hurt your playing and develope Bad habits than they will to produce good music. Not all German made French Bows are like this but too many are and will make it so much harder for the student to learn. To replace those older German made economy models we now have many Bows from China in various models and qualities. I have had my own model made recently to help stop the suffering... lol

On shorter lengths I have an OLD Bazan Bow that is only 19 1/2" playing length and is such a good Bow that I barely miss the extra 1 1/2-2" that my other Bows have. Bazin; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/Double...azin/Bazin.htm

The Italian Grip gives you more power but with the French grip, be sure to move your index finger out a bit towards the tip spreading your fingers slightly to get a better balance with the Bow. This is good for Spicattio but a loose wrist with the Italian grip works as well and with more sound.