Getting Lessons

[Jazzin']

I've been playing electric bass for 6 years and I'm currently 18 years old. I've been playing jazz for those 6 years too. I think it's about time I start to learn how to play the Double Bass. I live on the island of Montreal. I just want to know what the best way to start learning is. Should I rent a DB from somewhere and get a teacher, and then once I'm comfortable enough, buy my own DB? I would also like to know what DBs are best for standard jazz tunes and such, carved or ply or hybrids? I'm looking for the classic jazz bass sound with some "mwah" in it. Also, what size should I get, 7/8, 3/4 or a full sized one? I am approx. 6 feet tall.

And if anyone is or knows any good teachers in my area, please recommend one to me. I am seriously interested in jazz DB. Thanks.

[flint]

I can't direct you to any teachers in your area, but I'd say you were on t he right track with your approach towards getting a bass and teacher. You might try a local college. I currently study with a grad student for classical, and a recent grad for jazz.

A rental program will give you the most bang for the buck, and many luthiers will allow up to 100% of the rental payments to count towards a purchase or upgrade. Renting also keeps you from commiting to a bass before you know what it is you're looking for.

As far as size goes- a 3/4 is pretty standard. There are times I wish I had a 7/8, just because, in general, it can push more air. But I am pretty happy with my 3/4 most of the time. If you are going to be playing in an amplified setting, the size matters even less.

Get a bass, get a teacher, and have fun!

Oh, yea- check out the newbie links at the top of each discussion board. There's a lot of info there.

[Jazzin']

Thanks, what about the kind of wood (ply and/or carved) it's made out of? I've done searches about that before. What's best for a jazz walking sound?

[Snarf]

Go for a ply, way cheaper and more sturdy.

I was in your exact position in February, 19 years old, 7 years on jazz and still no upright. I got one, and have been teaching myself, observing some upright player friends of mine VERY carefully (one of them now plays with the Brubeck Institute, another played in the second best ensemble at Berklee his 2nd semester). Whenever something started to not feel right, I would adjust my posture or my technique slowly. At this point, I feel very competent in jazz on upright, and have found what works for me and it isn't doing any damage to me.

[flint]

Basses are not standardized like other instruments. For instance ,if you order a MIM fender P-bass, you pretty much know what you are getting. With a DB each one is different, even the same models from the same manufacturer(to a certain extent). The gist is that there are some plys that sound better than cheap fully carved basses, and there are some fully carved basses that are so rich and full that you want to cry. The best advice is to play everything you can get your hands on and see what speaks to you.

That being said, I have found that there are some generalities that can be said about both ply and carved basses. Ply's are sometimes described as being "tubby", while carved basses are less so. The sound from a quality carved, or hybrid bass is oftentimes much more complex than ply's, especially when bowed. This can be further confused by your choice of strings, which have different characteristics on different basses. A gut string will give you that old school "thump", but lack the ringing tone of a more modern sound. A good jumping off point is to look at bassists you like, and see what they are using. Buying Ron Carter's rig will not give you his "sound", but it can point you in a direction that might help.

[damonsmith]

Make sure to get lessons, some one who knows not only the one of the old classical methods (Simandl, BIllie, Nanny) but the new ones (Rabbath/Petrachi, etc.) too.

My advice is don't bother with a plywood bass, I'd get an good EUB like the ERGO or eminenece if you can't afford a carved or hybrid bass.
The carved top really makes a huge difference and makes for less physical effort. Once you get it vibrating you you can harness that energy for each subsequent note until you stop, arco or pizzicato.
This does not work as well on a pywood.
If you get a plywood bass you will just sell it later where you will need the EUB for travel and other situations.

[djcruse]

Originally Posted by chortle_nut

Basses are not standardized like other instruments. For instance ,if you order a MIM fender P-bass, you pretty much know what you are getting.

No, no, no, no, no, a thousand times no.

Like double basses, electric basses vary wildly. Sometimes you'll pick up an electric (Fender especially) and one will play like a dream and the next one from the same vintage will play like dog crap. For many companies, quality control is all over the place. There might be items where one is just like the next, but electric basses aren't one of those.

[flint]

My mistake. I'm just a doubler, and was making an assumption for the sake of an analogy. Unfortunately I'm sure quality is all over the board on almost any musical instrument category. I have to play the bass before I made such a large (to me) purchase.

[Jazzin']

What about bass manufacturers? Should I get a local luthier to build one, or should I go for a "big name" company? I've looked around these forums and I havent found any "Fenders" or "Laklands" of the upright bass. Is there a "Fender"-type equivalent for uprights? And I mean, like the company that the majority of professionals use. Because I seem to be a person that goes with the gear that the majority of professionals use.

[mje]

Originally Posted by Jazzin'

What about bass manufacturers? Should I get a local luthier to build one, or should I go for a "big name" company? ....

Neither. Every bass is different. There's no equivalent to the factory made, everyone-like-the-next bass. (Well, there is, but you don't want it.) You should rent a bass, take some lessons, and learn what it is about a bass that makes it good or bad, and what you like. Or at least get a teacher to help you find a bass.

[Stan Haskins]

Originally Posted by Jazzin'

Is there a "Fender"-type equivalent for uprights? And I mean, like the company that the majority of professionals use. Because I seem to be a person that goes with the gear that the majority of professionals use.

Price range is a big factor here. Do web searches and forum searches on these:
Englehardt
Kay
King (these are all US - made plywoods of good quality for jazz - Englehardt still makes new basses look at http://www.urbbob.com {pay me later, Bob})

Shen
Christopher (both Chinese - made of decent quality)

There are planty of others - check out newbie links, ask your friends, visit luthiers . . .

[Jazzin']

I think I want something either European or American, especially not Chinese. I think first I should find a teacher and speak to him/her about it.

[Jazzin']

What's the best way to find a teacher? Should I look at colleges/universities for teachers or students that offer private lessons. Should I look in some kind of classifieds/listings? Should I ask an upright bassist playing at a jam session. Anyone here on TalkBass in the Montreal area that offers lessons or knows somebody that does?

[JazzDude]

Originally Posted by Jazzin'

What's the best way to find a teacher? Should I look at colleges/universities for teachers or students that offer private lessons. Should I look in some kind of classifieds/listings? Should I ask an upright bassist playing at a jam session. Anyone here on TalkBass in the Montreal area that offers lessons or knows somebody that does?

My Zen-self says the best way to find a teacher is to be a student of everything.

My practical-self says to talk to any upright bassists you can - especially the guy(s) at a jazz jam session. If they're not THE ONE, they can steer you towards your goal.

I've recently bought my first bass, so here are my thoughts:

The Shens I've played are comparable to most Englehardts, but the best new laminates I've tried have both been Englehardt ES-9's - if you're into the blonde thing.

I recently got an Upton hybrid, so that is a (mail-order) brand to keep in mind, also.

Christopher is another Chinese brand to keep in mind, but I got the Upton before checking them out.

[Jazzin']

So I emailed an experienced bassist, maybe one of the best in Canada. Teaches at McGill University. Hoping to get lessons from him. Alec Walkington. It's a cool name too; appropriate for jazz bass. Apperently he takes a while to reply to emails, so I'll patiently wait for a response. I would be honored to get lessons from him.

[Jazzin']

So good news. I'm getting my first lesson from Dave Watts (was suggested by Alec Walkington) tomorrow. I also found a place to rent a bass and maybe eventually buy it.
I'm going to go for a plywood, probably a European. I think a Czech made one.

[Aaron Saunders]

Jazzin', don't rule out Shens and Christophers just because they're chinese. They're pretty comparable to the US/Canada made plys.

From my experience talking to other new players, it's pretty common in this region (southern Ontario) to end up with a "German factory bass" -- Kay, Hofner, and another company I can't recall -- from approx. 1945-1970's. They just kind of...turn up. I'm not really sure why. In any case, I have a 50's Karl Hofner that I really like. I paid $2000 for it, a bow in need of some serious work, and a bag. As far as the advice for going to an EUB rather than playing a ply...I really don't get that. I think I'll just play the real bass, thanks.

I do have a question, though -- why not just study with Alec? As far as your assumption about "one of the best in Canada," you're pretty much right from what I've heard about him. My jazz teacher, Mike Perlin, studied with Alec while at McGill University up until April 05.

Your Czech will probably cost you a bit more money than I paid -- I was at JazzWorks summer camp (it's in Quebec this year -- you might want to look into it) last year and there was an older guy who'd bought a Czech bass for about $4K. Mind, it sounded great and projected wonderfully. He had a really nice setup job done on it...I heard him jamming with a pianist and drummer and thought he was playing amped, it sounded so good. If I had the money and the opportunity to buy one, I probably would've gotten it instead of the Hofner...unfortunately, KFC only pays so much.

Good luck...it'll be the best thing you'll ever do for yourself. I know it was the best decision I ever made. Plus, if for nothing else...the guys on this side are way cooler than on the BG forums .

[Jazzin']

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

As far as the advice for going to an EUB rather than playing a ply...I really don't get that. I think I'll just play the real bass, thanks.

I do have a question, though -- why not just study with Alec? As far as your assumption about "one of the best in Canada," you're pretty much right from what I've heard about him. My jazz teacher, Mike Perlin, studied with Alec while at McGill University up until April 05.

I refuse to get an EUB. I think it defeats the purpose of my "switch" over to upright. Although I'm not really switching, it's more like an expansion.

I emailed Alec first. I got a reply saying he was full of students this summer. He suggested Dave Watts.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders
"As far as the advice for going to an EUB rather than playing a ply...I really don't get that. I think I'll just play the real bass, thanks."

- The reason for that is that the ergo behaves like an amplified carved bass since it is a carved block of mohagany.
it is also much, much cheaper than a plywood bass that will inevitably just get sold when you upgrade.
I think it is NOT better than starting on carved bass, but is a far better investment than a plywood bass since it will be useful for travel, late night practice (my practicing has doubled since I got my ergo) and loud
situations that require double bass technique.
Until the new airline restrictions I played unamplified 90% of the time, but I am really happy with my ergo.

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by Jazzin'

I refuse to get an EUB. I think it defeats the purpose of my "switch" over to upright. Although I'm not really switching, it's more like an expansion.

I emailed Alec first. I got a reply saying he was full of students this summer. He suggested Dave Watts.

Makes sense. Sounds like you'll be getting a great tacher either way .

Damon, I don't want this to be an EUB vs. DB thing, but I'm going to digress for a moment. IME, not too many 18 year olds are concerned about taking an upright bass on airplanes. I find loud situations pretty easy to handle with my ply DB (using a Rev. SOLO pickup and an AI Contra II) without the feedback I find almost inherent in carved DBs.

I've played a number of EUBs, and none of them sound enough like a DB or, almost as importantly, FEEL enough like a DB, to actually own one as a replacement. Now, that's not to say I don't see the role of an EUB. I'd really like to pick up an Azola or an Eminence for "convenience" sake, but I can never see it taking the place of my DB. I don't see this as a rule of thumb, just my personal preference.

EDIT: As far as latenight practice...I've lived in a house, rurally, all of my life. Hence, not too many neighbours to bang on my door for the last year and a half while I've been learning the DB. I do practice at night most of the time -- for a couple hours around 1-3am last night -- but it's at the other end of the house, on a different floor, and with two doors in the way between myself and anyone else. Next year I'll be at college, but there are practice cells there at the school. The late-night practice might be a problem in res, though...