Help sorely needed!

[Kimi]

Another novice here, bought my first DB last Friday, and though I do want to study with a teacher, I simply can’t travel anywhere with my bass (I don’t drive a car, there isn’t anybody willing to brave the crowded and pockmarked streets to take me where I need to go, the vans for hire are scarce and expensive, and the public transportation system is a nightmare in Bucharest – phew, did I leave anything out?), so I thought I’d ask the veterans of this forum four questions:

1) I’ve managed to find a posture for myself and my bass in which I stand up straight, my bass stands up straight, I don’t need to tilt my head to the right, my arms, shoulders and back don’t hurt even after an hour of reinventing the wheel (for now), and I don’t need to pinch the neck or use my left thumb to steady the bass (many of these tips I’ve learned from this forum, by the way, giving me the courage to try – thanks!). The only problem is that the vertical plane of the bass isn’t parallel to mine (i.e. the bass is slightly rotated to the left), which means that I end up using the inside of my right forearm to bring the right side of the bass toward me. This seems to be OK for pizz, but for arco it’s impossible. So it’s probably back to square one on finding the right posture. Any suggestions?

2) Whenever I finger a string, there is a slight “click” as the string hits the fingerboard. Is this normal? I find it very annoying.

3) Whenever I play pizz, the string buzzes as I lift my finger, especially on the G string near the nut and toward the body end of the fingerboard. The only way I can finger the string without producing the buzz is to lay the finger flat against the fingerboard, which I don’t want to do. I’m thinking the buzzing is due to the vertical component of the string’s vibration, so my plucking technique might also need serious revision. I also found that lifting the finger off the string quickly seems to reduce or even eliminate the problem on the lower strings, but it’s still a problem overall. Any ideas?

4) The open D string sounds very good with pizz (by which I mean what I imagine to be bass-like: big boom, clean crisp deep tone, rich timbre), the open A string not so good (less boom). Is this something a luthier could fix or is it one of those DB mysteries best left unsolved ?

Many thanks in advance, any help is greatly appreciated; if these topics have already been discussed elsewhere, could you please point me toward the relevant threads?

Best wishes.

[rprowse]

I think you need to get someone to look at your bass.
Sorry, I know that's not much help.

[fcleff]

I taught DB for a long time and would travel to students' houses (on occasion). See if you can find a teacher willing to do this.

And yes, it sounds like your bass may need some work.

[Kimi]

Originally Posted by rprowse

I think you need to get someone to look at your bass.
Sorry, I know that's not much help.

Much appreciated, rprowse! Yes, my DB probably needs much work - I had to mount the soundpost and bridge myself (well, not quite, but I just couldn't wait to try it). One question: is the improper setup the cause of my buzzing problems as well?

Kind regards.

[Kimi]

Originally Posted by fcleff

I taught DB for a long time and would travel to students' houses (on occasion). See if you can find a teacher willing to do this.

And yes, it sounds like your bass may need some work.

That's encouraging to know, fcleff; I was under the mistaken impression that DB teachers won't go to all that trouble (which is quite understandable). I'm definitely going to try and find a teacher like that.

Yeah, my bass is probably pining as we speak... Let me ask you the same question I asked rprowse - will a proper setup solve the buzzing as well, or is it a question of technique?

Warm regards.

[rprowse]

Originally Posted by Kimi

One question: is the improper setup the cause of my buzzing problems as well?

Definitly. Think about it for a minute. Two things can cause buzzing:
1) Your finger board has grooves or bumps. The only way to fix this is to raise your strings (obviously, this may not work if your board has big problems). You can raise the strings by gluing little pieces of leather under the strings on the bridge... a luthier told me about this and I did it on my bass. If your board is in an awful state, it may require plaining.
2) Your strings have been set up too low. See above.

Might be worth checking your bridge too. Is it in the right place? I guess this is why you need to see a luthier.
Good luck,
Richard.

[Kimi]

Many thanks for the explanation and the good luck wishes, Richard. Well, my bass is brand new, so the fingerboard is flawless as far as I can see, and the buzzing only occurs as my finger leaves the string when I play pizz, but I'll get it to a luthier ASAP as you suggested. My poor DB!

Kind regards,

Miki

[damonsmith]

You can also try using the weight of your arm and strength of your shoulder to hold the note down, rather than squeezing.
A lot of my students use public transit to get to me, they just take lessons on my bass.

[rprowse]

Originally Posted by Kimi

Well, my bass is brand new, so the fingerboard is flawless as far as I can see, and the buzzing only occurs as my finger leaves the string when I play pizz, My poor DB!

I'd suspect the bridge set up, but sounds also like the strings could be 'factory cheapies'. Some new instruments come with awful strings... which seems silly, but true.
Ciao
Richard

[Kimi]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

You can also try using the weight of your arm and strength of your shoulder to hold the note down, rather than squeezing.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I think I'm doing that already. I use my shoulder and arm to hold down the string and only tense my LH fingers just enough to bring the energy/weight of the torso down onto the strings (it's much the same as piano playing, which I've been doing for almost 20 years). There is no buzzing when I mute the vibrating string with my RH a fraction of a second before I pluck a string for the next note (the length of the note of course depends on what you need) - which I tend to do anyway. But I would have liked to have a clean, solid technique and be able to let two or more strings ring with pizz if I wanted to. But that's way ahead.

A lot of my students use public transit to get to me, they just take lessons on my bass.

So, playing on a different bass isn't such a big deal even for beginners? That's good to know - at least it makes the whole thing much more relaxed. Thanks for the tip!

[Kimi]

Originally Posted by rprowse

I'd suspect the bridge set up, but sounds also like the strings could be 'factory cheapies'. Some new instruments come with awful strings... which seems silly, but true.
Ciao
Richard

Hmm, the bridge, you say... Well, I've aligned the middle of the bridge feet (as seen in profile) to the dents on the inner slope of the f-holes, and there are no spaces between the bridge feet and the top with the strings fully tuned (took a while to do that!). Is that OK?

As for the strings, bullseye - they're most certainly "factory cheapies" - they came with the bass, and to be honest I can't tell good strings from bad at this point since these are the only strings I know. Thought I might start with these and see what I want later, but maybe I'm inviting bad technique this way, phew...

Thanks for the tips!

Servus,
Miki
(I get the feeling this thread should belong in the Setup forum; sorry everybody, didn't intend it!)

[rprowse]

Well, something is seriuosly amis! I assure you that the initial playing of a double bass should not feel hard. If the strings are set up decently, you should enjoy your first experiences. When I started on DB in the 70's I knew no better and tried to deal with crappy strings, that were extremely stiff, and very high action. All the notes on your bass should ring freely, with no buzz. Sounds like your bridge is in the right place. Your bass definately needs to be seen by an expert, who can make playing fun... as it should be.
Richard.

[Kimi]

Originally Posted by rprowse

Well, something is seriuosly amis! I assure you that the initial playing of a double bass should not feel hard. If the strings are set up decently, you should enjoy your first experiences. When I started on DB in the 70's I knew no better and tried to deal with crappy strings, that were extremely stiff, and very high action. All the notes on your bass should ring freely, with no buzz. Sounds like your bridge is in the right place. Your bass definately needs to be seen by an expert, who can make playing fun... as it should be.
Richard.

It doesn't feel difficult, just challenging. When it comes to music, I don't get discouraged easily and I'm enjoying every bit of it - it's hard not to have fun when you've got Django Reinhardt's and Louis Armstrong's early recordings ringing through your head all the time! For instance, I have a cheap Yamaha classical guitar which doesn't sound like a D-28 Martin by any stretch of the imagination, but I learned to play rhythm guitar and some fingerstyle on it in about 4 months, just to figure out what The Brothers Four were doing, as American folk music was relatively new to me at the time (developed calluses on the LH fingers, too, didn't expect them to come in handy some day! Next comes the banjo, I'll wager, 4-string and 5...). Anyway, thanks so much for your time and advice, I'll get my DB to a luthier and buy proper strings soon.

Miki

[rprowse]

Prego.
Just remember that, like your guitar, the bass should feel good to play.