Horrible tone from second finger

[sir juice]

First of all, I'm quite a beginner, playing for about a year or so. For a long time I've been studying the Bach Cello Suites for bowing techniques (haven't got any of them good yet though) and the only pizz. playing I've done so far is just walking with one finger.

I play with a couple of guitarists playing Django-esque Gypsy stuff, and I'd normally pull my bow out for my occasional solo, but today, I didn't have one.

My solo was ok, my second finger could cope with the fast lines because of my background in bass guitar, but the tone was horrible. With my first finger I can get a really fat sound, going for a technique similar to Ray Brown's.

How can I get as much flesh under the string as my first finger does while still maintaining speed?

And how would I still get a fat sound using more of my fingertips rather than the sides of my fingers a la Stanley Clarke? (not that fast yet though)


ps. Sorry for the essay

[Jason Sypher]

It's really up to the individual player, there are so many variables involved. One thing that will help is to develop some callous on that middle finger, the soft skin is not going to really give you as much sound. You probably will have to develop some personal way of getting as much meat on the string as you can while balancing speed and agility. Ray Brown used the whole damn side of his finger if I remember correctly. I think the answer is clear, you just have to practice whatever you do (even the Suites) using two fingers and record yourself every once in awhile to see what tone you are drawing. Work on getting the two fingers to sound as much alike as possible. I think this is what we all do.... Also, if you've only been playing a year I think you can lower your expectations a bit and just slow down and work on the basics. A year may feel like a lot but, as far as learning an instrument, it's hardly a drop in the bucket. Good luck.

[Mike D.]

I am in agreement with the above comment.
There will be a difference in tone the minute you change the angle and position the hand is in relation to the string. The key is to practice slowly and work on getting the tone you hear in your head on your bass. this will take time, so don't beat yourself up if it's doesn't happen tomorrow.
Use a mirror when practicing too, to try to get a similar hook on the string from finger to finger. As well as what the fingers are doing, make sure your arm reacts the same way playing 1st finger or second. It's a personal thing as some people like to play ALL from the finger, or incorporate the pulse in the arm (kinda like Rufus' bouncing arm). I tend to believe that the use of the weight of the arm and letting it bounce with the playing is where the tone is at. This also reduces the risk of tendinitis as your not putting all the stress of playing the string into the finger, but rather it's an energy flow that comes through your shoulder and entire arm, into the hand, and fingers.
I'd say the weight and "feeling" the weight of the arm is key. And practicing with the bow the same way, in using the weight of your arm will benifit your pizz control. The same is true vice versa (practice pizz helps arco technique). after all they are techniques that rely on the weight of the arm.
hope this helps.
Mike

[Matthew Tucker]

Some players have more problem with this than others i think. My RH second finger is a good 15mm longer than my index finger, which is great for signalling to aggressive drivers, but not so good for two finger bass stuff. LH second finger is even longer, about 20mm difference!!

I noticed that my teachers both had much less difference between first and second fingers, seems to make two finger playing easier and more even. Some players (eg NHOP I think) do fast passages using first and third fingers, perhaps because they have long middle finger too. I find this hard to do.

On the other hand, my long second finger means that it's always in a good position for "skips" or work across two adjacent strings. I guess you have to work out what your own hands will do and build on that.

Does anyone think it would be interesting to compare how players' hands differ? Maybe I should post a poll.

[clink]

When I started taking lessons, I made a smart@## comment to my teacher that my small hands might limit me. He laid his left hand on my right, palm to palm and fingers spread. It was humbling to find that our hands are exactly the same size. The only difference is that his hands are thinner. FWIW, he gets a very fat pizz tone.
His advice was to use what you've got and get the most out of it.

I do agree with Matthew that our physical makeup will dictate to some degree our playing style, but we should never make excuses or put limits on our technique.

[Steve Killingsworth]

Are you studying with anyone? In keeping with the DB forum mantra, a few lessons can cure a mulititude of ills. A teacher might help you make some adjustments that could really improve things.

That said, I can relate to your situation. For a long time I just relied on the index finger because the tone was so much better. Then I decided things would never improve unless I worked on it. I used an approach similar to what Mike describes and eventually it did get better. Keep working and be patient and it will come together.