How to avoid overpracticing and still make steady progress?

[emilio g]

I started playing bass a lot later than some of my other friends at school (started about age 17, and I'm 21 now). I'm very anxious to catch up to the rest of the pack, and practice as much as possible. I'm the kind of guy who will play 10 hours a day if I don't have anything to do. Totally love playing bass in any form be it classical, jazz, rock, electric, upright, whatever.

However, despite having a GREAT teacher, properly setup instruments, and good technique, I've had the earliest symptoms of some really scary nerve problems in my left hand. Common sense (as well as the doctor..) is telling me that if I keep up such a demanding schedule, I'll burn my hands out in 5-10 years.

I'm interested in anything that involves practicing away from the bass or making my time on the instrument more effective.

How much do you play everyday?

How do you divide up practice sessions?

What do you practice?

Any advice on how lifestyle relates to getting the most out of my playing time(diet, exercise, etc)?

Anything else related to the topic of becoming a professional and not having my body fall apart...?

[txstatebass]

Lots of water, stretching, and proper diet. Seriously, STRETCH before you play. Also, a bass wheel or similar device will save your back and shoulders.

[cmewhinney]

This may or may not be possible given your financial situation, but you could buy a more ergonomic bass. I know Chris Stambaugh is making some that have made all the pain in my teacher's hand go away after having debilitating pain for years, so that's something you might look into. Also, it's good to take a short break every once in a while- maybe 5-10 minutes per hour of practicing. Like the previous poster said, stretching is great too.

[Panurge]

Only recently I've started doing everything at very low velocity, low volume, not necessarily low speed, but with the least effort possible, and it's done wonders for not only hands but for my technique and my sound. Gary Peacock's DVD adresses that, and although I've had it for years I've just recently put into practice, so to speak. I was staying at a YMCA, and a couple with a young infant was staying next door, but I still wanted to do my daily practicing, so I did, as quietly as was possible. I ended practicing crazy hours, because I never caused tension in my hands. Next gig, I was in total control of the instrument, as I wasn't trying as hard to get sound out of the instrument as much, just letting it produce it.
I've found that the harder you pluck, the harder your LH is working to keep the string down, and if you don't spend time working up to this, you end up using unnecessary tension in your LH, which is the main cause of pain and discomfort in that hand and arm, and also in your neck, shoulders and back.

Go see a sports massage therapist in the mean-time to loosen things up, and have him explain what's wrong with you, so you can maybe stretch or warm up your body to get it ready to play.
Another thing: I make a point of warming up my back and shoulder muscles before I play, as most of the strenght involved in playing bass is somewhat similar to giving a bear hug and if I don't pay heed to the opposing muscles, I get into trouble in the long run. Just do arm rotations, 20-30 times, until you feel your shoulders and back muscles warm up. I found it helped a lot.

OK, last thing! I haven't delved deep into this, and I'm sure some guys are trained in this technique and will be incensed that I suggest you can be helped by just reading a book, but there are good books on Alexander Technique aimed at musicians, and although I'm sure have a credited specialist helping you through all the exercises is immensely valuable, I've found that the basic concepts were good starting points.

Hope this all helps!
Cheers

[chris dammann]

i was in a similar position when i first entered music school. i had only been playing two years at that point and wanted so bad to play like the other kids... quickly, i got such bad hand problems i had to take year off--which was the best thing i ever did for my playing. i discovered yoga and alexander tech during my time and cannot recommend either enough. also, the book effortless mastery completely changed how i approach practicing. now, i'm keeping higher practice hours that i have ever in my life but a lot of my practice is a way from my instrument. i try and spend equal amounts of hands on time with my instrument and time thinking about what it is i'm working on. the bass isn't like a sax, you can't play ten hours without fatigue and if there is one fast way to develop bad technique it is practicing with spent hands.
good luck in your musical journey

[rarisgod]

I've been playing for 5, going on 6 years now, and I haven't really experienced any hand problems. The only problems I experience are when I cut my index fingernail too short and I'm in immense pain for about a week while playing, but besides that, no ergonomic trouble. Is it because I'm young? I play in pretty much all of my free time, so I don't know if this should be affecting me yet or if it will soon enough.

So what should I do to prevent it, if it indeed will happen?

EDIT: I'm quite sorry, I didn't notice that this was in the Double Bass section, I'm a Bass Guitar player. My sincere apologies!

[jefkritz]

for non-bass music practice, try singing. you'll develop your voice (actual voice and, arguably more importantly, musical voice) and think of new phrases. plus it's fun.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by emilio g

I started playing bass a lot later than some of my other friends at school (started about age 17, and I'm 21 now). I'm very anxious to catch up to the rest of the pack, and practice as much as possible. I'm the kind of guy who will play 10 hours a day if I don't have anything to do. Totally love playing bass in any form be it classical, jazz, rock, electric, upright, whatever.

However, despite having a GREAT teacher, properly setup instruments, and good technique, I've had the earliest symptoms of some really scary nerve problems in my left hand. Common sense (as well as the doctor..) is telling me that if I keep up such a demanding schedule, I'll burn my hands out in 5-10 years.

I'm interested in anything that involves practicing away from the bass or making my time on the instrument more effective.

How much do you play everyday?

How do you divide up practice sessions?

What do you practice?

Any advice on how lifestyle relates to getting the most out of my playing time(diet, exercise, etc)?

Anything else related to the topic of becoming a professional and not having my body fall apart...?

What areas do you feel you need to catch up in? Speed? Musical Ideas? Get around the bass i.e. thumb position? Reading? Your Ear?

I would look into an overall fitness program i.e. cardio as well as weight training because a strong body is less prone to injury.

[emilio g]

What areas do you feel you need to catch up in? Speed? Musical Ideas? Get around the bass i.e. thumb position? Reading? Your Ear?

I would look into an overall fitness program i.e. cardio as well as weight training because a strong body is less prone to injury.

I'm getting more into singing because I can sing melodies along to tunes while I drive to school.

My reading and ear are getting better from transcribing solos and I'm overall happy with the rate of progress. Also, getting into playing piano has really helped me to learn standards while I'm not playing bass.

I like moderate weightlifting about 3 times a week to stay healthy.

In the practice room, I've been working on getting more speed and fluidity over the entire fingerboard, classical rep, and jazz vocabulary. Some stuff I've been into the last few weeks are the Simandl and Flesch Books, working on Valse Miniature, an Anders Jormin transcription, Brahms No.1, and putting various licks/scale patterns in 12 keys.

Also, should I count performances as practice time? I'm always that guy who misses half the orchestra after party because I had to go catch up on my scales for the day.

[MrSidecar]

... that sure sounds like a lot of practice time. Being a professional bassist for 10 years now, I have to admit I have never ever practiced that much. 4 hours a day (every day) is my max. I don´t say I´m at the peak of my abilities, or at all amazing, there´s lots of way to go, but there´s a life, too. I wouldn´t do more than 4 hours on end, ever, I think it´s ineffective.

Here´s my 2 cents.

Without having heard you, I dare say that your problem is most likely NOT instrument related. My first hint is to loosen up. Take it easier. Being anxious to keep up with the others is just so stressful. I mean, who says you have to? I think everybody can get anywhere, it just takes time, and that´s different from one player to the next. You are YOUNG, you have all the time in the world.

Practicing without instrument is a thing I have done for years. It can be very effective, but is heavy brain-activity, very exhausting and should not be overdone. 15 minutes on end is cool. Try this: Ride a train. Far. While doing that, imagine playing a scale of your choice, a blues walking bass line, or a BACH cello suite prelude. Anything, you just have to KNOW it very thoroughly. Try to imagine every detail: How does it feel unter your left hand to press the strings down? Feel the rolling of the string under your pizz finger? Which fingers do you use on your left hand? Imagine all the shifts, positions, etc. Hear the notes, even. Feel the vibration. -That´s very effective and almost meditation.

Speaking of Cello Suites: Play Bachs Cello suites. All of them. Every day a little, all your life. This music is just so strong and so much bigger than us, enjoy the beauty of it. Play them slow and precise. Play them from a cello book, low (as written) and in the original octave (one up, meaning a LOT of thumb position).

One of my teachers (the great NHØP) once told me that already at a young age, he faced the challenge of not being bored at home (I mean, he played with all the heavy cats at a very young age, and he felt "Well, practicing Autumn Leaves at home just doesn´t cut it"). He started to play whatever music he could get his hands on, regardless of the instrument it had been composed for. Everything you do is beneficial for everything else (on your instrument).

Whatever you do, embrace what you play, be as positive as possible about it. Love your mistakes, every single one gives you one more reason to practice and enjoy the sound of the instrument.

Whenever I am facing a huge discrepancy between practicing and playing (meaning something like "I have soloed on this tune for days on end now, and as soon as I play it with others, it sounds like utter shite"), I try to disconnect practicing and playing. I practice only what I don´t do in public and what does not have any obvious connection to any real-life-musicianship I might be in. That frees me up in playing situations, as I don´t try so much to use my newest coolest thing (and then fail), but instead I follow the music and do what serves the music.

That´s a general thing: Don´t try anything. Stop caring, at least for yourself, while playing. Care for the music. Hard one, this one, but very important.

Fear is generally rather intimidating and keeps you from progressing. Instead, do not be afraid of anything or anyone in music. Enjoy others who play bass lots better than you, even those who are lots younger. Isn´t it cool that there´s so much great music out there?

Some more practical things: Practice efficiently. Isolate problems, and work on them. Trouple with a certain spot? Try and see if you really KNOW what you have to do. Do it SLOW. -Can´t play fast? What is it that keeps you? Physical things, or Coordination? Practice it SLOW. Or practice with a REALLY FAST metronome and play almost nothing, but whatever you play, TOTALLY ON. Be it only 2 eight-notes. Be very detailed. And try to always cut something in half until it´s easy, because everything you practice should be easy. Otherwise, you label something "CAREFUL! THAT´S A HARD THING TO PLAY", and that label keeps sticking on it. No matter how good you know it, you´ll always see that label, and you´ll always be careful and anxious, because it´s TOUGH. Stick the other one on it saying "EASY AS PIE", and it will sound as if it is. If you know it really, that is.

I could co on and on about this. None of this is my personal discovery or wisdom, I have just read a lot about it and benefitted loads of: Kenny Werner EFFORTLESS MASTERY and David Berkman THE JAZZ MUSICIAN´S GUIDE TO CREATIVE PRACTICING.

It might be obvious that I´m not at all into the physial exercise thing for playing better. Instead, I firmly believe you will not face severe trouble if you take it easy. Be kind to yourself, like what you do, don´t fear wrong notes. If you want too much, then you play too loud, press too hard, pluck to harsh. All that energy wasted. Remember, it´s PLAYING an instrument, not WORKING OUT on an instrument or USING an instrument. Playing is what children do for joy, and it´s mostly not focused on any other purpose than having a good time.

And don´t ever consider yourself "ready". Just go on, never stop practicing.

There´s some movie qoutes to think about also:

"There is no spoon." (The Matrix)
"With great power comes great responsibility." (Spider-Man)
"Let´s go bowling."(The Big Lebowski)

[hdiddy]

I would learn some basic comping on piano and play some drums as well.

[shadygrove]

Originally Posted by emilio g

I'm getting more into singing because I can sing melodies along to tunes while I drive to school.

My reading and ear are getting better from transcribing solos and I'm overall happy with the rate of progress. Also, getting into playing piano has really helped me to learn standards while I'm not playing bass.

I like moderate weightlifting about 3 times a week to stay healthy.

In the practice room, I've been working on getting more speed and fluidity over the entire fingerboard, classical rep, and jazz vocabulary. Some stuff I've been into the last few weeks are the Simandl and Flesch Books, working on Valse Miniature, an Anders Jormin transcription, Brahms No.1, and putting various licks/scale patterns in 12 keys.

Also, should I count performances as practice time? I'm always that guy who misses half the orchestra after party because I had to go catch up on my scales for the day.

This is a great thread! Thank you to all for much excellent advice. As someone with a full-time job, family, and first double-bass 9 months ago at the age of 48, my goals as a musician are likely much less ambitious than many of yours, yet I still feel that pressure to practice more and "make up for lost time". Playing with tension, always pushing to get better, and playing through pain will lead to problems eventually. I learned that lesson with guitar and am working hard (there i go again - working hard at relaxing) not to repeat the mistakes on DB.

Watch it with the weightlifting, as that can also be tough on joints, tendons etc... that are already fatigued from playing. I had to lay off arm curls for awhile. If nothing else a healthy diet, adding some aerobic exercise and taking care of your body increases your odds of living to play bass into old age.

Sounds like you're finding a balance - just the fact you're on this forum asking the questions and thinking about where you'll be 5 years down the road are good signs you're taking the steps to avoid physical problems and mental burnout. As Mr. Sidecar and others have said, it is important to enjoy the journey, listen to your body, and enjoy what you're doing.

[jumpinin]

Originally Posted by shadygrove

Watch it with the weightlifting, as that can also be tough on joints, tendons etc... that are already fatigued from playing. I had to lay off arm curls for awhile. If nothing else a healthy diet, adding some aerobic exercise and taking care of your body increases your odds of living to play bass into old age.

I find swimming a better upper body workout than weight lifting. You get a good total body workout, build muscle (fairly slowly) and get a good cardio workout at the same time without the stress on your tendons and joints.

[Alexi David]

Practice Life.

Don't spend all day at the Bass.

Seriously - I made my greatest strides musically when I started spending less time in a room alone and more time outside the house living life. Now, when I come back to the instrument, I'm more productive and I find I have a lot more to talk about on my instrument when I play it!!

[Marcus Johnson]

Mr. Sidecar and Alexi... great posts. Completely different, but they complement each other beautifully.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by emilio g

Anything else related to the topic of becoming a professional and not having my body fall apart...?

One thing that I see lacking in a lot of professional musicians isn't related to the physical act of performing. I know brilliant musicians who can't fill out a tax form, iron a shirt, make an omelet, let alone book a band on a tour... really anything except what they do onstage. They're fundamentally helpless.

Becoming a freelance musician is a risky undertaking, as is any sole proprietorship in today's economy. You'll need to know how to present yourself to the vendors, whether it's a promoter for a 50,000 seater, or the owner of the corner joint. There are good musicians here that I can't use on my hotel gigs, because they've never learned how to act when they're there. You also need to know how to manage your finances. And so on...

Alexi said it.... it's not all about the bass. All the things that any traveling businessperson would need to know are things that you should look into as a pro musician.

If I remember correctly, Gary Burton wrote a book about dealing with the nonmusical aspects of being a working musician. Maybe that would be good to check out.

[Treyzer]

Marcus, Preach it brother! +1 on what you've said. That is great advice

[Alexi David]

As for the "business" end, I highly recommend Hal Galper's 'The Touring Musician" - especially if you are in music school, because they don't teach you that stuff over there. And to quote Hal, "[The Music business] is 25% business and 75% personal relations". I think that's the quote.

[Marcus Johnson]

It was surreal for me to play with the masterful pianist and composer Joanne Brackeen, have her play my ass right into the stage, and then ask for a ride to the restaurant afterwards; I asked 'No car?'', and she said "I don't drive... never have".

Of course, if you play like that, you deserve to be driven around everywhere!

[Ed Fuqua]

It's a NY thang....