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Jazz Technique [DB] Jazz bass technique: left and right hand issues, advanced techniques, and any physical issues relating to playing jazz.


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  #81  
Old 11-26-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Higdon View Post
+1

A corollary that I've only recently realized:
Don't play over their heads.
There is a limit to how fast we can process information, i.e., distinguishing and identifying the notes being played, relating them to the harmonic structure of the underlying tune, etc. Just because you can does not mean the audience can. If they can't, what's the point? Some perverse ego need? If you need to stretch out, and you can maintain musical integrity, fine, do it, just don't make it the whole evening.
Great point Don. It's probably not a great idea to torture those that have come to listen and support your music. Reminds me of a joke. At a Heavy Metal concert, the guitar player says to the audience, "We suffered for our music, now it's your turn"!
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  #82  
Old 11-26-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Fret View Post
BTW which video are you refering to? is it on youtube?

David Gage Workshop with Eddie Gomez


I've been checking out the one finger technique from this-
Jazz Icons: John Coltrane DVD

The 1960 footage with Paul Chambers is priceless!
You Tube Clip from same DVD

Working on some of the transcribed PC solos to tempo has been a challenge for me, especially using the one finger technique on his triplet figures. I sense the key is relaxation. I have yet to nail them at anything higher than a medium tempo.

There is a Drew Gress video that Swami posted recently where Drew talks about pulling through the string with a completely relaxed but controlled manner to get the fullest sound out of the bass. That seems to me to be the starting point. From there, it's a matter of gradually building endurance at higher tempos. Then being able to interject ideas and motion to the line.

I could also be over thinking it!
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  #83  
Old 01-19-2012, 01:01 PM
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necrobump because i didn't want to start a new thread. but i was watching a video of sam jones with oscar peterson (a segment of which was posted earlier in the thread but it no longer available) and noticed i THINK he's only using one finger at about 320 bpm. by transitive property, i also know on a few records i have of sam he maintains this for as much as ten minutes if not more (on at least one donald byrd album). hell even in this video he plays up a lot (as one does with oscar peterson).

so i've been trying to get my one finger chops up to 320 if not beyond. the thing is i wonder how much of it has to do with sam's set up. he's playing guts (i'm almost positive) and i'm wondering if his ability to play and rebound that fast with one finger has to do with the elasticity and general thickness of gut strings. or is it simply the mechanics of what he's doing with his arm and where he's pulling from (which i really can't tell that part either).

oscar peterson trio bobby durham sam jones - YouTube (around 3:20 is when his walking solo start and you get a good shot of him playing. coincidentally, 320 is also roughly the tempo i think). i know he could play just as quick on steel strings in the 70s from the records i have, but i don't know if his technique for doing so changed at all.

TL;DR -- playing with two fingers on uptempo tunes makes me feel like a punk when sam jones can play that fast one fingered like it was nothing. do gut strings and their characteristics have anything to do with it?

EDIT: i also want to add, this isn't simply a matter of pride. i don't know if it's real or perceived, but reading different things and subsequently really listening to myself has led me to believe alternating fingers may provide the ability to easily play up to 400 or so, but it also takes away from the percussive "oomph" of the line. so i dunno. thoughts?
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Last edited by mr mastodon : 01-19-2012 at 01:06 PM.
  #84  
Old 01-19-2012, 01:25 PM
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Mingus is also another person to watch vids. Not surprised that it can be done. I imagine that being able to really relax your arm is a huge part of it.
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  #85  
Old 01-20-2012, 01:32 PM
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I've been playing walking lines almost exclusively with one finger. When I started playing gut I just found that I was getting more of the sound I want. I'll still solo with 2 but I just feel I get a wider groove with one. That said relaxation is absolutely key. The Drew Gress thing is key too. Arm weight gets that big sound. You can muscle it but you'll hurt yourself. Then as tempos increase stay relaxed. Especially your shoulder. I know i'm tensing up if my right hand starts to travel north letting me know I am pulling from my forearm and and rather than my shoulder. The arm should really just be a pendulum swinging freely from the shoulder.
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  #86  
Old 01-20-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingers View Post
I've been playing walking lines almost exclusively with one finger. When I started playing gut I just found that I was getting more of the sound I want. I'll still solo with 2 but I just feel I get a wider groove with one. That said relaxation is absolutely key. The Drew Gress thing is key too. Arm weight gets that big sound. You can muscle it but you'll hurt yourself. Then as tempos increase stay relaxed. Especially your shoulder. I know i'm tensing up if my right hand starts to travel north letting me know I am pulling from my forearm and and rather than my shoulder. The arm should really just be a pendulum swinging freely from the shoulder.
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  #87  
Old 01-20-2012, 04:28 PM
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thanks for the advice! made for a good read. that said I don't quite "get" how to relax my muscles while playing from the shoulder at that speed. I guess it'll just click one day. or it won't haha. thanks guys.
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  #88  
Old 01-20-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr mastodon View Post
thanks for the advice! made for a good read. that said I don't quite "get" how to relax my muscles while playing from the shoulder at that speed. I guess it'll just click one day. or it won't haha. thanks guys.
Breathe.

I think the tendency is to tense up parts of your body as tempos increase.

Try this. Pick a tempo that is fast but within reach. Set the metronome to keep you honest. Pick a tune you know by heart. Close your eyes and start walking. Try to keep your breath even and relaxed. Many people do strange things like hold their breath or breathe unevenly as they fatigue. As time passes really pay attention to your body. Notice where you start to carry tension. Now try to breathe a little deeper and think of directing your breath to those points of tension.

It'll take practice but get really in touch with how and where you carry tension will help you relax.
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  #89  
Old 01-20-2012, 06:21 PM
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that makes sense. thank you. when I hit the shed tomorrow I'll definitely set aside some time for that. cheers!
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