How many here are full time players?

[Treyzer]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodbar

Wasn't this guy, was it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti1gbVE0cWw

OMG!!

This made me laugh & cry almost at the same time

[emilio g]

This thread has been really informative.

I'm 21 and I have almost exactly a year left before I graduate college with a jazz performance degree.

I've been working as a sound/lighting tech for a wedding band, teaching a little bit, and playing as much as I can. All that has taught me quite a bit about myself as well as got me thinking about how I'm going to support myself.

At this point I'm mostly interested in progressing as a bassist and musician..not forcing myself to make money by only playing gigs. A job teaching music that allows me to still have my practice time would allow for a lot more progress than schlepping all my gear to lots of gigs that I don't care about 6 nights a week.


As for the wedding band, I'm not nuts about the job, but I need the cash at this point. However, it has taught me not to become a wedding band musician. Some of the people in the band are "performers only" and they tend to be really mean and pessimistic.

[chicagodoubler]

Emelio- 6 nights a week is a blessing and a curse.
Once again, how do you make a musician complain?
Give him a gig.

[arseniotall]

wow this thread is very sobering. I am a full time musician, but most of all I am LUCKY. To the chicago guys. I just did a week at the Jazz Showcase. Relatively empty and a horrible experience all around...Is this the norm?

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by arseniotall

wow this thread is very sobering. I am a full time musician, but most of all I am LUCKY. To the chicago guys. I just did a week at the Jazz Showcase. Relatively empty and a horrible experience all around...Is this the norm?

Besides the empty house, what else was horrible? I think they are having a hard time since they moved to the current location. They are not advertising much as far as I know, so that has to hurt business. The location is a bit off the beaten path too, as you probably noticed.

Were you with Christian Scott? If so, he's not exactly a household name yet, so that doesn't help, either.

Just read part of your Brazil blog, entertaining stuff. My tour there was the best, some crazy stuff, but not as wild as yours!

[arseniotall]

yea it was with christian. Ive been in his band for about ten months and we've never done anything as close to as empty as this was. Plus a 75watt bass amp and the guitar player was playing through what seemed like an alarm clock radio. Not to mention some really out behavior by the club owners that I probably shouldn't mention. Now that you say it I do remember playing at the older club before.

[Marc Piane]

Agreed Eric. They were in the highest rent area of Chicago before they moved. Tons of hotels, bar, and restaurants close by. The problem is I think it broke the bank. The new location is still downtown but has very little walk by traffic. That said it is lower cost and they are trying to book more local stuff on off days. It feels more relaxed. I think they are heading in the right direction. I think it is just growing pains.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by arseniotall

Plus a 75watt bass amp and the guitar player was playing through what seemed like an alarm clock radio.

Well, that sounds about right. I never understood why they won't get some decent backline for the club (although the drumset is ok)...don't want to spend, I guess.

[Ed Fuqua]

What happened to baseballnutjob? He got all pissy cause Nathan didn't recognize his inherent greatness and then insulted the gigs that fingers got and then disappeared?

I'm not sure I understand why the thread is titled FULL TIME PLAYERS but seems to be about making a living playing. And not even making a living, but making a living playing jazz?

What info are we actually trying to find out here?

[Nathan Parker]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

What happened to baseballnutjob?

I think he is packing up his bags/gear and moving to Chicago. All you Chicago area bass players better watch out. You're about to get gig-jacked!

[chicagodoubler]

Maybe this thread ended up being overtly financial because just about every conversation these days ends up being about money woes...

For myself, and certainly many of the other cats here, worrying about the financial end of things is secondary to a love for the music and this funny looking chunk of wood we carry around.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

For myself, and certainly many of the other cats here, worrying about the financial end of things is secondary to a love for the music and this funny looking chunk of wood we carry around.

+10000000000000000000

[WillBuckingham]

I worked about 6-10+ gigs a week from Spring '07 (when I graduated college) to the end of '08 (things have slowed down a bit since then for me), 99% of those were jazz gigs.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Maybe this thread ended up being overtly financial because just about every conversation these days ends up being about money woes...

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. There have been any number of CAN I MAKE A LIVING AS A JAZZ MUSICIAN (or even WHERE, HOW, WHY can I make a living etc.) threads in this and other bulletin boards. This doesn't seem to be about that, the post seems to be going in a much different direction than the title and I am smelling the faint odor of subtext. At least I think I do, hence my question.

[BenderR]

Jim Hall addressed the issue of making a living as a Jazz musician in the preface to one of his books. I'll have to paraphrase but the gist was that performing is the reward. We live in a far dfferent world from that which existed even one generation ago. Secure jobs in any field are becoming a rarity and prosperous venues that can afford to keep a staff of well paid musicians are going the way of the dinosaur in a hurry.

Bassists, especially in Jazz, have a somewhat better chance of finding work than players of other instruments because they are unique in being nearly universal. One can have a Jazz band without a pianist, a guitarist, a drummer or a horn player but there are very few that lack a bassisit.

In 1977 I sprang myself upon an unsuspecting world as a Jazz guitarist and the response was er . . . underwhelming. It seems that in spite of all the work I put into learning serious music the guys the played "Sweet Home Alabama" verbatim from the record tended to get the gigs. About 6 months into my career I decided that if I didn't want to starve I had better learn the music that was in demand, IOW, I sold out. Fortunately, I had plenty of guitar students at the time and I was able to keep the lights on while I found my place in the wonderful world of Show Biz. Over the next few years I came to the conclusion that I would rather do something mundane for a day job and be able to play music as I saw fit and not from need.

In the years since I've taken far fewer jobs but enjoyed them more. I wish I could say that ever since I've been able to play Jazz gigs only, either as a guitarist or a bassist, but that is simply not the case. What I have been able to control is the quality of the musical performance. Where I live (rural SE Arizona) you are far more likely to get an audience response from a good version of Margaritaville than a good version of Boplicity but I can always get my revenge by playing some BeBop for the break tune.

[willgroove2]

Originally Posted by arseniotall

yea it was with christian. Ive been in his band for about ten months and we've never done anything as close to as empty as this was. Plus a 75watt bass amp and the guitar player was playing through what seemed like an alarm clock radio. Not to mention some really out behavior by the club owners that I probably shouldn't mention. Now that you say it I do remember playing at the older club before.

Hey kris I saw you play at the old showcase with Kenny Garrett. although I am mainly a electric player I do double from time to time mostly on a EUB,I started doing it because I dig the sound but it was strange to me how many bandleaders started calling me and telling me "bring the upright". In some cases it was for the look because to some, any type of upright=jazz.

[bassdogEmer]

Hi,
I have been supporting myself playing Jazz gigs for about 10 years in NYC. It has been a long hard road but also very rewarding - I play about 4-7 gigs a week and the gigs vary greatly. Some are great other's maybe not ideal but I am always playing and being out on the scene is also very rewarding in terms of hearing and getting to know wonderful musicians. last year I had my best year ever playing 324 gigs but it is exhausting and I am considering taking a visiting professorship at a College in Northern California next year just to get a break. Touring helps as well in terms of paying the bills. I can definitely say that musicians in NYC and I am sure other major cities take all kinds of gigs. Most of my gigs are playing standards sans the three original bands I play in. I played last week with a guitar player in Paul Motian's band - the gig paid $50 - so that can give you sense of just hard it is on everyone for sure - but having done it now for ten years - I can say it has done wonders for me as a bass player and musician and I have managed to never once play a wedding (absolutely no offense to anyone who does- that was just my personal goal)
I don't think being fulltime defines someone as this or that - I play with plenty of amazing cats that have day jobs - and simply choose NOT to take every gig that comes there way - I would also point out that the Jazz gigs pay differently depending on where you are - here in NYC there are sooo many bad ass dudes that will play anytime it makes it harder. I just did a few gigs in Northern Cal and that was quite a diff. experience - great pay, killin cats and you could DRIVE to the gig and I didn't have to play acoustic!!...ahh the good life is calling me for sure!!!!!

[BenderR]

Originally Posted by bassdogEmer

Hi,
I have been supporting myself playing Jazz gigs for about 10 years in NYC. It has been a long hard road but also very rewarding - I play about 4-7 gigs a week and the gigs vary greatly. Some are great other's maybe not ideal but I am always playing and being out on the scene is also very rewarding in terms of hearing and getting to know wonderful musicians. last year I had my best year ever playing 324 gigs but it is exhausting and I am considering taking a visiting professorship at a College in Northern California next year just to get a break. Touring helps as well in terms of paying the bills. I can definitely say that musicians in NYC and I am sure other major cities take all kinds of gigs. Most of my gigs are playing standards sans the three original bands I play in. I played last week with a guitar player in Paul Motian's band - the gig paid $50 - so that can give you sense of just hard it is on everyone for sure - but having done it now for ten years - I can say it has done wonders for me as a bass player and musician and I have managed to never once play a wedding.
I don't think being fulltime defines someone as this or that - I play with plenty of amazing cats that have day jobs - and simply choose NOT to take every gig that comes there way - I would also point out that the Jazz gigs pay differently depending on where you are - here in NYC there are sooo many bad ass dudes that will play anytime it makes it harder. I just did a few gigs in Northern Cal and that was quite a diff. experience - great pay, killin cats and you could DRIVE to the gig and I didn't have to play acoustic!!...ahh the good life is calling me for sure!!!!!

Good points. When I was a young, zealous musician I felt like you had to be full-time to be any good but in the reality of today's world that just doesn't work. Back in the '70s I could make more money playing gigs than I could at a day job but these days the opposite is true. I'm fortunate in that my day gig (IT Manager) is very compatible with my avocation of music and I feel that I'm a much better player than I was back when it was a bread and butter.