John Clayton Bass tips

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Exactly, the great old standards were the pop tunes of the day with wonderful singable melodies and usually not that complex harmonically, so if you were familiar with the tune, you had a decent chance of getting through the changes by ear.

I got a last minute call to play two sets of hard Steve Lacy tunes with one quick rehearsal the day of. I had never tried to play any of them but as a listener I new them all inside and out.
While there were certainly things I could have done better, I pulled it off without any train wrecks and was able to make music I felt good about precisely because I new the songs by heart from years of listening.

[Paul Warburton]

Yeah, Damon. I've done the very same throughout my bass playing career.
I was honored to be called to sub for the road bassist of a VERY famous singer of the Great American Songbook. I spent years listening to this person AND the charts involved. My reading then, as it is now, was sketchy at best. But, I was able to read the general road maps of the charts (much longer than the recorded versions what with solos and such). This ended up being the second most thrilling experience of my musical life.
Charts ARE a necessity. Some people develop a Jones for them though. They start doubting their ears and become insecure without them. Like the old saying goes...."Use it or lose it." Use them....they get stronger. Is you fail to use them, they weaken. In a nut shell time for me.......

[Bobby King]

I think that internalizing chord changes will teach you more than if you depend on charts. Also, as already stated, the changes in fake books are often bad or incorrect. When you hear recordings of experienced musicians, you can get insights into the harmonies and melodies that you don't get from sheet music. I think that reading fake book charts is a different kind of reading, and avoiding them does not mean you shouldn't "read music".

While tapping on 1 and 3 may seem to be counter to swinging, focusing on those beats may be good for keeping steady tempo. When you only think about 2 and 4, it can be easy to rush.

My son is one of John's students at USC. One thing John stresses that my son has pointed out to me and that I find interesting, is the aspect of not using the right arm and wrist for pizz. John teaches to keep the hand mostly in place and let the fingers do the work, only moving the hand slightly across the fingerboard to access higher or lower strings. He says that the fingers can produce all the volume needed and hand and wrist is wasted motion.

Other things that my son has said that John stresses is singing what you play, always knowing the melody of tunes, never looking at the fingerboard, much arco practice, transcriptions, transcriptions, transcriptions.

I met John on a visit to USC and found him to be a very nice and friendly man. He does seem to have his methods and opinions, but hey, it sure seems to work for him. The man is a fabulous musician!

I usually find that "methods" can be useful as a basis to learn, but you also need to know when to make exceptions and not be overly literal or dogmatic. It reminds me of that joke "If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times. Don't exaggerate!"

[drew_bassmore]

John has a brief feature as an arranger in the new issue of Jazztimes.

Somewhat relevant to this thread, and maybe(?) some minor insight into his "method" is that he states that he got the bug to write after his third month with the Basie Band. "Memorizing the book allowed me to focus on what I was hearing and then make a stab at writing myself."

[chop_1992]

John is certainly one of the best musicians I know—on any instrument. So when you look at his list of practice tips and musical thoughts, you have to accept the fact that these are tried and true ways of approaching playing jazz on the bass. There are, of course, other approaches that work for other people . . . but John's are obviously coming from a great well of knowledge and experience.

The thing about tapping on 1 and 3 comes from the big band era. Most horn players who played (play) in a section and were concerned about getting a deep swing and a centered beat would (and still do) tap on 1 and 3. The horn players in the WDR Big Band (where I play) do this. I know the guys from the Basie and Ellington bands who I used to sometimes play with would do this. Buddy Rich used to suggest (scream) that his horn players had to tap on 1 and 3. Mel Lewis always talked about feathering the bass drum—on every beat, and at faster tempos on 1 and 3. Jeff Hamilton, who is John's drummer does this as well.

You do not have to accent 2 and 4 to have the music swing—you just have to have consistent time, a strong even sound, and good note choices. Sometimes, accenting 2 and 4 can even have the effect of making the music heavy, or making the time bogged down or imprecise. Clayton mentions this in one of the blindfold tests in this month's Jazztimes that Drew references above.

hdiddy makes a good point about foot tapping: You should not have to rely on foot tapping on any beat(s) to get a good groove. In fact, it can be detrimental if you are putting a lot of energy into moving something that is not actually making any sound. You shouldn't have to move any body parts other than the ones you need to actually get the sound out of the bass! That being said, after you have established your killer groove, if you then feel moved to move, then move.

Regarding fakebooks: I know John is completely anti-fakebook, and I agree with him to an extent. We all need to learn to read, but if we are going to play jazz, it is more important to be able to hear what we play, and play what we hear. If I do not know a standard, I would much rather just have a piano player play it for me in real time, rather than "tell" me what the changes are, or put down a scribbled chart with some chords and no melody in front of me.

I came up in an era (like several of the august TBers posting here) where no one took fake books to gigs—it was not cool, and we were just expected to know a bunch of standards. If I didn't know one, then I was supposed to pick it up by the second chorus (if not sooner). I did learn and practice standards by listening to records and checking things out in fake books, but often the fake books did not jive with a particular recording.

Now there are even books about how to learn tunes out of fake books.

I saw John Clayton give a workshop in about 1990 and he asked someone to sing a note—he took the note, an F# or something—and played a beautiful version of Body and Soul using that note as the starting point. Not so hard if you really know Body and Soul well, but John did this in front of a room of New York bass players knowing that his ears and intuition would guide him. He is a very musical cat, and I would suggest that you think about his points—why would he suggest certain things—and check out his way of playing. You don't have to adopt everything if it doesn't work for you, but just check it out . . .

Thanks for posting John's tips . . .

[chop_1992]

Just one more little tidbit:

I rehearse and record a lot with the WDR Big Band before we do a performance, and sometimes the music is complicated. I have noticed that after I sight-read a new chart once or twice, I can play it pretty well. After we rehearse the music for a few days—that is when I start to make mistakes. Why? Because at that point I am starting to learn the chart by ear. It is actually a "dangerous" time for me, and I know that when I am making the transition from reading the chart to being able to play it by ear (almost), that I really have to concentrate and focus. At that point, I can also hear more of what the other sections are doing, because I am not buried in the chart.

I think that is what Clayton was talking about when he said that after he was on the Basie Band for a couple of months, he had "memorized the book" (as Drew quotes above) and could listen more closely to the actual sound of the arrangement. Eyes off the paper and ears open . . .

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by chop_1992

...I think that is what Clayton was talking about when he said that after he was on the Basie Band for a couple of months, he had "memorized the book" (as Drew quotes above) and could listen more closely to the actual sound of the arrangement. Eyes off the paper and ears open . . .

Yeah, it does makes sense to consider John Clayton's advice as a personal critique first and foremost...a this-is-how-I-got-here list.

It doesn't surprise me at all to find out the players I look up to and admire have no problems sharing their personal discoveries and secrets to produce the good stuff.

[¡bassballbill!]

i think some people are misinterpreting the no fake book thing and taking it too far. the gist of what he's saying is definitely to develop complete ear-hand(-bass-heart) integration, but the man can also read like nobody's business, and he didn't get that way by learning everything he's had to play by ear. these days people are composing tougher and tougher stuff, and i'm fairly sure JC would agree that you have to be able to read at a high level too, especially if you want to be a session player. i really don't think he's saying no charts ever, or learn everything for every gig by ear, but rather that the standards, which is what fake books are comprised of, you should learn by ear and know by heart, inside and out in all keys.

as for the one and three thing, i agree with the people saying that it comes from playing in a big band. all that music was meant to be danced to, and i admittedly know nothing about swing dancing and could be TOTALLY wrong here, but it always seems to me like most of the steps start on one and three.

[¡bassballbill!]

i just read some posts that i hadn't read yet and apologize for pretty much just repeating what ehochberg already said.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Oh, man, I've played with that guy.

I am that guy.