Miles "So What" fingering help

[lenjammin]

My first post so forgive me! I've played So What many times on bass guitar, been playing a real bass for 5 years now using classical taught fingering. So now I have to urgently learn it on upright! I'm talking about the riff (Dm7 - Ebm7 intro).
On BG I can play it all in position, but on upright I need to move and I'm finding it really tough to keep intonation. Should I 1 -4 (slide) 4 or what. Help. Only a week to the gig Thanks, Len

[chris dammann]

play it at the heel of the bass (where the neck turns into the body) good luck

[bonaventura]

there's a thread here about why it seems most DB players play in lower positions and then go up the G string...

some DB players play "So What" up the G string, others (including me) cross over.

if you play it at the "heel" you need to shift from open D to Eb on the A string and immediately shift again to play the lick in Eb.

[lenjammin]

Thanks guys, Bit more time to type now. I can't find that thread by the way - any clues. If I play in position I'm playing ... String/note/finger:
3/E/1 2/A/1 2/B/4 (slide) 2/C/4 (shift) 1/D/1 1/E/4 (shift) 2/C/4 (shift) 1/D/1 2/A/1
Sorry if there's a better convention for writing this here, let me know
This is too much shifting (none on a BG!) or I'm not good enough! Either way I don't end up accurately at the end of the riff and it doesn't sit comfortably under my fingers. I'll try the 'up the G string' method inthe meantime. Anyone care to share exactly where they play it? I know this thread must have been done to death but I could do with the advice or a link to previous threads.

[Eric Hochberg]

If it ain't broke...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkdxjihGRyI

[lenjammin]

Wow thanks that's a great help. Never seen the man live !
Cheers
Len

[Eric Hochberg]

There's also a Miles "So What" video from 1964 with Ron Carter, plays it the same way as Paul Chambers.

[Will Yager]

I used that PC clip to learn the fingering too.

[fdeck]

What a nice tempo. My nightmare with "So What" is that I can start it at whatever tempo I want, then I have to drag like a plow behind a mule throughout the entire tune otherwise it is unplayable when it's my turn to finish up.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by fdeck

What a nice tempo. My nightmare with "So What" is that I can start it at whatever tempo I want, then I have to drag like a plow behind a mule throughout the entire tune otherwise it is unplayable when it's my turn to finish up.

Check out the "Live From Stockholm" recording, they start it of fast and when it comes time to finish, PC train wrecks the head but manages to get back on track by the end.

Here's the version with Ron Carter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR5b0Eryr1U

[DaveAceofBass]

Put your thumb in the heel of the bass neck and play all the notes in that position--pivot to reach the B and C then pivot back:


D minor lick
0D 1A (pivot up on thumb) 2B 4C (pivot back) 1D (pivot up) 2E 4C (pivot back) 1D

Eb minor lick
1Eb (quick shift) to 1Bb and then use the rest of the same fingering above

For more on the pivot, look up some searches on Francois Rabbath's technique. I'm not a stickler of one way or another, but on So What this technique really makes it easier. I'd be curious to know what were Paul Chamber's fingerings.

[David Kaczorowski]

It's already easy. No need for pivots or any of that other junk. Save that for stuff that is actually hard.

[Mark Perna]

I prefer this tune at the original slow tempo. The mood was so great on the original. At fast tempos, I prefer to play Impressions.

But if you have to play it at a fast tempo, Emily Remler taught me a cheat with this tune that pretty much eliminates fast tempo problems.

Instead of playing it up the G string like PC or RC, play open D-A,B,C on the D string-D,E on G string, B on D string, D on G string etc. It's all in one position with no shifts if you can play it with four finger technique or two small shifts for the B and C with three finger technique.

Here is the cheat though, to play the figure in Eb requires changing the pickup from Eb to F. F on the A string to Bb, C, Db on D string etc. To make the cheat less noticeable, you can kind of ghost it.

With minimal shifting, you can play these passages really fast and really cleanly so tempo issues kind of disappear. Of course, this is really a steel string trick. It won't work as well on gut where you want to stay to G string as much as possible.

mark

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by calivox

I prefer this tune at the original slow tempo.

No kidding... most people seem to play it at "where's the fire?" tempo.

Calivox, I've used that little trick on the second part... did you play with Emily? She was a friend of the Benoit family... David, Phil, and so on....

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by DaveAceofBass

Put your thumb in the heel of the bass neck and play all the notes in that position--pivot to reach the B and C then pivot back:


D minor lick
0D 1A (pivot up on thumb) 2B 4C (pivot back) 1D (pivot up) 2E 4C (pivot back) 1D

Eb minor lick
1Eb (quick shift) to 1Bb and then use the rest of the same fingering above

For more on the pivot, look up some searches on Francois Rabbath's technique. I'm not a stickler of one way or another, but on So What this technique really makes it easier. I'd be curious to know what were Paul Chamber's fingerings.

i don't pivot. open D, hammer A, 2 B, 4C...

[.matthew e wengerd.]

Originally Posted by lenjammin

Thanks guys, Bit more time to type now. I can't find that thread by the way - any clues. If I play in position I'm playing ... String/note/finger:
3/E/1 2/A/1 2/B/4 (slide) 2/C/4 (shift) 1/D/1 1/E/4 (shift) 2/C/4 (shift) 1/D/1 2/A/1
Sorry if there's a better convention for writing this here, let me know
This is too much shifting (none on a BG!) or I'm not good enough! Either way I don't end up accurately at the end of the riff and it doesn't sit comfortably under my fingers. I'll try the 'up the G string' method inthe meantime. Anyone care to share exactly where they play it? I know this thread must have been done to death but I could do with the advice or a link to previous threads.

Doesn't the line start on the tonic (D, in the case above)? GoldenStateVoice's cheat above works specifically for the lick in Eb, but I don't hear the nine in PC's playing.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by DaveAceofBass

D minor lick
0D 1A (pivot up on thumb) 2B 4C (pivot back) 1D (pivot up) 2E 4C (pivot back) 1D

Eb minor lick
1Eb (quick shift) to 1Bb and then use the rest of the same fingering above

I must confess to having used a really evil cheat:

D minor lick
0D 1A (pivot up on thumb) 2B 4C (pivot back) 1D (pivot up) 2E 4C (pivot back) 1D

Eb minor lick
0D to 1Bb and then use the rest of the same fingering above

Notice starting out in D on both licks. Nobody will notice. I promise that I only do this if the tempo is absolutely out of control and the drummer is building a house. Next time I will just end it with "Impressions" and be honest about it.

[lenjammin]

Hey thanks guys this thread has been really useful! Interesting point though - I have a transcription of the bassline which I used for my grade 8 bass guitar which I've ben working from, and the first note is definitely E - a fourth from E to A, and then F to Bb .
It's much easier to play starting on D, but I assumed it was right to start on the 9th as its dorian. But hey, my theory's not that good. Concensus ???

[chris dammann]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

If it ain't broke...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkdxjihGRyI

thanks for sharing i've never seen that. !

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

No kidding... most people seem to play it at "where's the fire?" tempo.

Calivox, I've used that little trick on the second part... did you play with Emily? She was a friend of the Benoit family... David, Phil, and so on....

I played a little with her mostly jam session stuff. Mostly, I studied with her for about 18 months when she lived in Pittsburgh in late '86-to early '88.

I used to live in Harrisburg, PA and one of my good friends from there was a great bassist named Steve Varner. Steve now lives in NJ outside of NYC. In 1985, Steve turned me onto Emily's Catwalk album (with Eddie Gomez and Bob Moses) and she just blew my mind. I drove to NYC (this was in the days before Amazon) to buy the rest of her albums. I think I transcribed every note off of all of those albums. I was mad for the stuff. If you've never checked Emily out, run, don't walk and get her discs. She was a monster player.

In 1986, Emily was going through some bad times with drugs and moved to Pittsburgh to go through rehab and to get out of the temptations in the NYC environment. The cool part was she moved in NEXT DOOR TO ME.

While the circumstances weren't the best for her, for me, it was heaven. Imagine Ray Brown or any other major influence of yours moving in next door to you. It was THAT cool. I got to hang with her quite a bit for the time she was there. It was a mindblowing time. She had amazing ears and even more amazing time.

I think I kind of blew her away as well because I knew all of her music. The first time I met her I started playing all of her tunes back at her. She was a little down after going through rehab and I think some punk kid knowing all of her music probably helped her out a bit.

She moved to Brooklyn in 1988. I saw her in 1989 when she came through on tour. She died about 9 months after that while on tour in Australia. I was pretty crushed. My first daughter was named for her.

mark