Modern Sounding Ballads for Pizz...

[David Kaczorowski]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Sure, baby steps. yes, you have to hear how a language sounds by listening to those who speak it. The thing that gets me is not having a way to play something unless you hear somebody else do it first.

I don't think transcribing is necessarily hearing somebody do something first and then playing it yourself. That's what it may be about in the beginning. But as a player advances it becomes something else entirely. It can become a key to unlocking your own doors, a path to continued self-discovery. That's what I'm talking about vs. the idiomatic playing of most academics.

[basbende]

To me it seems that, although I agree to the point Ed made, that pocketgroove knows what he doesn't like about the way he plays a ballad. In that case I would actually recommend listening to those recordings of which you go "wow". It's inspiring and at least you will go into a direction you like better.

To avoid the "problem" of sounding like oldstyle players like Hinton (I love Hinton) it might be a good idea to try and play less triplet like in the 8th notes, so make them (more) straight. Playing with a bit more sustain makes it sound modern too in a way.

(@pocketgroove: isn't that a pic from metallocalypse???)

Olaf
www.olafmeijer.nl

[PocketGroove82]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

It's not about playing modern or traditional, it's about injecting YOUR voice into the conversation.

It's quite the paradox for me that finding your voice on an instrument seems like something that takes years and hours upon hours of study and practice to develop, yet at the same time you can only sound like you.
I'm a versatile bassist, capable of sounding authentic in numerous styles and settings, on electric and upright, and holding down the gigs, but I don't have "my sound" by any means. I always feel like I'm playing and adapting to (dare I say, accompanying) the situation, rather than forcing "me" into the equation. But it's always "me"...it's impossible to get away from yourself, ya know.

Anyways, I think part of me being unsatisfied is that I hear cats like Christian McBride, or a local baltimore bassist, Amy Shook http://www.myspace.com/bassamyshook , and they get this great, in your face, "modern sound" full of so much character and nuance, while my basses tone is light years away from that sound. So, when I originally said I wanted to hear modern sounding ballads, I was talking literally about "tone sound", not "conceptual sound". If you guys get my drift. A small part of it is gear related, but the issue for me is a the whole "hearing every line/note/drop before or as it's being played" deal...Still working on the ET side of the house.

Basbende, I'm still searching for a pizz. ballad that makes me really say wow, and can help lead me into an inward direction. I love Mingus' ballads, but most the ballads that hit me in the tear-bone, the bass usually isn't the feature.

Thanks for the continuing suggestions, comments, and allowing me to vent a bit.

matt


ps: the avatar IS from Metalocalypse! Great Show!

[RobinBetton]

i've been checking out derek baileys "ballads" cd which I think is a great example of standards reconceptualized

[Mike Arnopol]

Hey Ed--nice point about Tristano. I thought that most people didn't know about him. I had done a lot of playing with Warne Marsh and Lee Koonitz in my younger years. I'd always pay Warren to give me lessons. Best teacher I ever had.
When I was younger my only goal musically was to sound like Scott LaFaro. It took me about 10 years to realize that I would never sound as good as Scott LaFaro being Scott LaFaro. I think it's incredibly important to assimilate as many styles as possible. But younger players see this as an end in itself. The end goal is to come out at the end with your own voice. I remember a few months ago playing with some young guys (bebop nazis as I call them) and I asked about a new bassist in town. They said---this guy is amazing---he sounds exactly like Paul Chambers! Now I love PC's playing but I said to these kids "why would anyone want to sound exactly like Paul Chambers?" They looked at me like I had three heads.

[oliebrice]

Originally Posted by PocketGroove82

So, when I originally said I wanted to hear modern sounding ballads, I was talking literally about "tone sound", not "conceptual sound". If you guys get my drift. A small part of it is gear related, but the issue for me is a the whole "hearing every line/note/drop before or as it's being played" deal...Still working on the ET side of the house.

there seems to be a leap of logic here I don't understand. I'm pretty confident that Milt Hinton was "hearing every line/note/drop before or as it's being played", that isn't the difference between him and Christian McBride...

[anonymous02282011]

ok ok. couple tracks for you. McBride on "Introducing Mehldau" prelude to a kiss.

or a step in another direction, Taurus Mateen (playing electric upright) with Jason Moran doing my one and only love. it's on one of the bandwagon cds.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by PocketGroove82

It's quite the paradox for me that finding your voice on an instrument seems like something that takes years and hours upon hours of study and practice to develop, yet at the same time you can only sound like you.
.... But it's always "me"...it's impossible to get away from yourself, ya know.

well, I'm not to sure about that. I did so much to obscure "my" voice and basically sounded like bad impersonations of PC or Sam Jones. And then I run into cats for whom getting to that personal voice is where they started, what they are working on is developing a more nuanced language. You have to trust that there's something valuable about yourself and your contribution and that you can get to that. The thing that speaks to you in the playing of the folks you mention is that they have something personal to say.
I play with a lot of different folks up here, from bop to free bag and I don't do anything differently with any of them. I just try to play what I hear in the situation that I'm in. Worrying about whether it sounds too modern or not modern enough or too old school or not old school enough just doesn't enter into the equation.
Look, do what you want. You asked, I answered. I been doing this for a minnit, but my experience is only my experience. If that is meaningless to you, I remain remarkably unaffected.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Hey Ed--nice point about Tristano. I thought that most people didn't know about him. I had done a lot of playing with Warne Marsh and Lee Koonitz in my younger years. I'd always pay Warren to give me lessons. Best teacher I ever had.
When I was younger my only goal musically was to sound like Scott LaFaro. It took me about 10 years to realize that I would never sound as good as Scott LaFaro being Scott LaFaro. I think it's incredibly important to assimilate as many styles as possible. But younger players see this as an end in itself. The end goal is to come out at the end with your own voice. I remember a few months ago playing with some young guys (bebop nazis as I call them) and I asked about a new bassist in town. They said---this guy is amazing---he sounds exactly like Paul Chambers! Now I love PC's playing but I said to these kids "why would anyone want to sound exactly like Paul Chambers?" They looked at me like I had three heads.

Man I wonder who we know in common? Where all are you at now? There's a few of the "cult of Tristano" here on the board - Jeff Bollbach (doesn't post so much anymore) did some playing with Connie and Carol for a minnit, Robert Kopec works with Charley Krachy and Kazry (Liz Gorrill), Ray Parker plays some with Charles Sibirsky, Andy Fite and those cats; and hung some with Harvey Diamond when he was in Boston.

Do you know my teacher, Joe Solomon? He studied with Lennie and did some gigs with Connie and Warne, Billy Lester, Sal Mosca (in the 70s and then Sal's last NYC gigs). How bout Bob Arthurs, Jon Easton, Dave Frank (tenor player, not the pianist), Jimmy Halperin? Tim Pleasant?

Keerist, it's like old home week...

[Mike Arnopol]

I've lived in Chicago for most of my life, so my experience with the Tristano school was mainly just self taught (transcribe, transcribe, transcribe! ) until I played with Lee and Warne. Those two were very helpful. Especially Warne. To me Warne was the hippest player of the group. I love Lee's playing and it's more emotionally accessable, but if you analyze Warne's lines and motivic developement----- stunning. I record and tour with Patricia Barber, so that's how I get around.

[Ed Fuqua]

Sweet. There was a friend of a friend that played with Warne in the 80s here in NYC, Randy Johnston (guitarist). He spoke very highly of the experience as well.

I remember hearing some stuff off a trio record of PB's a few years back, sounded nice...

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Man I wonder who we know in common? Where all are you at now? There's a few of the "cult of Tristano" here on the board ...

I was at Jazz classes on Saturday and the teacher started talking about how Lennie Tristano was the father of Jazz education (etc.) and I thought of this thread!!

So the cult has definitely spread to the UK....although obviously without such a direct connection as you guys!

[Ed Fuqua]

Here's a nice vid clip and some soundbytes of Mike playing with Patricia Barber.

Sounds really great!

http://www.patriciabarber.com/av/main.html

[flatback]

Oh Patricia Barber is so deep. One note, one carefully phrased beautiful note and you just know you are in the presence one deep cat...
Man she just knocks me out.