New callouses

[bopeuph]

I haven't played a four hour gig since new years, and I have just been thrown back in the mix. I was able to play whole jam sessions without a problem, but this new steady twice a night gig murdered the callouses I had on my hand. I started the ritual of popping blisters, and the new hard callouses formed, but something different happened.

My middle finger bled under the new callous the next night. I kept developing the callouses and done everything I've ever done before. This past week, my index callous split open and kept snagging my strings, and since I didn't have any tape handy, I was forced to move to the side of my finger like most bass players play (I play both fingertips at the same time. Gives a more ballsy sound I like). Then today, the old blooded callous split open and softened while in the shower. That's never happened before. So, I now have these dry, diseased looking fingertips that I was hoping would have some decent developed callouses by next week. Looks like that isn't going to happen. Besides my regular bebop nights twice a week, I am backing up an up and coming vocalist, and she likes to do Honeysuckle Rose with just her and bass. I sure as hell don't want to fold on that. I also have a slab gig tomorrow, and think that four hours, even on EB, will be painful.

Any suggestions besides tape, which I'm on my way out the door right now to buy? Is a week decent enough to get the callouses back?

Nick

[Mark Perna]

New Skin isn't a comprehensive solution but might be better than tape. You'll (painfully) still feel the torn skin move under the New Skin patch but it will help keep the area from becoming infected while it is healing and you'll have a little more sensitivity than with tape. Plus it won't slip off under the stress of plucking like tape does. I've used it as a measure of last resort with ok results. You'll get through the gig(s) and do less damage than you would otherwise.

mark

[MingusAmongUs]

Many people swear by Krazy Glue. No kidding. I haven't tried it myself. It may be the same as or very similar to NuSkin. There's also something called Dermabond which also may be another name for the same stuff. I recently sliced my thumb open and they used that in lieu of stitches at the ER.

Meanwhile, as a measure of treatment rather than emergency damage control, I have also been told to use alum (the same stuff you find in a styptic pencil), which clots blood, and dries out moisture -- it's usually used on shaving cuts. In theory you would apply it to a fresh blister to suck out the fluid without having to pop it (thereby having to go through the whole process all over again at the next gig). Also, in theory, you could apply the alum on a regular basis, just to aid in the development of callouses, and to prevent moisture from building up there. Again, I've not tried either of these methods but know several people who swear by them. Personally it's been a long time since I've done a 4-hour acoustic gig, at least one where I've had to dig in in 4/4 time, so I would probably have the same problem if one came up.

[jfv]

I tried using New Skin rather than bandages and in the middle
of a two hour rehearsal my fingertip was suddenly bleeding,
so I wouldnt use it as a sufficient answer, at least not
on points that get REAL abuse.

I have a 3 hour gig tomorrow night, and my left index, and
right index and middle are all wounded I have been using
Epsom soak and care and in two days they at least are
looking better.

My situation is similar to yours, I had callouses that had
formed over years of light use, but serious upright playing
has kicked my finger's ass

What I have found best is fabric bandages, last week I
thought my left index could take it, but not yet, so its
back to a bandaid on that and right middle for the gig.

[fingers]

Well. I have bad news. I've heard every fix in the book from Krazy Glue to duct tape to Compound W. I've tried them all. I don't think any of them work.

I play hard. I believe pretty strongly in getting a good acoustic tone and letting the amp make up the difference. Sometimes I hurt. The only thing I have found that really helps is Advil. I never take the stuff but in a pinch, if I am in too much pain to play, it works.

If you can suffer through the first few tunes the endorphins should kick in and your fingers will just be kinda numb.

The good news is that you should be ok by next week.

I've taken some flack on other threads about this attitude but I spend my life doing four hour gigs. I have a 2.5 hour dinner gig followed by a 4 hour club date tonight, a 4 hour gig tomorrow, and a 3 hour gig Sunday. Don't ask me about scales or amps but THIS I know about.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm kind of with FUNGUS on this one. I also pluck hard and have tried most of the solutions mentioned out there, and found that none of them really work for me. That said, here are two things that DO seem to help:

1) Sanding/shaping calluses before they get too ugly: On my very dry hands (I have extremely dry skin), my calluses reach a point where they start to become painful, and years of experience has shown me that shortly after this point, they will start to blister and bleed and get really foul and painful. I've found that if I file and shape the callus down to a more normal size/shape before all of this other stuff happens, most of the time the problem is averted. Pedicure files and blocks seems to be best for this purpose. The lady at the drugstore might look at you funny, but it's well worth it.

2) Fabric bandages/bandaids/tape as a last resort: Sometimes nothing you do can keep the ****age from happening. When it happens, what you need is something to put on your fingers that doesn't feel too weird or sound too bad. For me, cloth seems to feel and sound the best. I remember a weekend years ago where i played two nights with Sonny Fortune, who likes really really fast tempos and extended solos. By the end of the first night, I was oozing pus and bleeding all over the place. Not good. Before the second night, I went to the drugstore and bought damn near every kind of bandage and tape to see what would work best. I finally settled on some cloth tape that only stuck to itself, and it worked fine. By the end of the second night I had so much tape on I looked like a mummy, but I survived the gig intact and didn't make my fingers any worse. Beyond that, it's all about rest and letting the skin grow back.

[bopeuph]

I don't think I'll ever have the problem with my callouses being too hard. When they were developed last year, they were nice, soft, and practically invisible. I just want to see what I can do to aid in the development of the callouses by next weekend. These suggestions are great. I'm going to try both the crazy glue and tape. Thanks, guys.

Nick

[fingers]

Sorry if I came off as a little dark yesterday. I get a little bristled when I see quick fixes to things that just take time. Not very helpful though. Sorry.

These are more care and feeding suggestions. I still stand by my earlier comments no matter how callous.

I know this doesn't help your problem right now but I am with Chris on the preemptive strike thing. I routinely file my calluses. I do this for two reasons. 1. My calluses get big and start to impede my ability to play. They will also occasionally become cracked or misshapen. A nice session with the file helps. 2. I think they help toughen your fingers too. Some rough thing rubbing against your finger tip tells your body to make tougher skin.

I also make sure that I moisturize EVERY time I take a shower, do dishes, wash my hands, etc. For me, I have the most trouble when my fingers get dry. I am an oily Italian so it doesn't happen much but excessive hand washing will dry anyone out. I should buy stock in Lubriderm.

Good luck. M-->

[bopeuph]

Thanks. I bought the glue, New Skin, and tape. But I'm healing MUCH faster than I did the first time I went through this. Even just a day later, I'm using the New Skin and tape mostly to hold loose dead skin down that's painfully attached to soft skin. I don't need a bloody mess on my hands.

I think I would hate to have callouses as thick as yours to where I need them filed down. When I had my callouses fully developed, they were invisible and fairly soft to the touch when I wasn't playing. When I was, they got a little discolored, but that was it. I like that. Doesn't scare away the chicks when they feel the fingertips then.

By the way, I also am a greasy Italian.

Nick

[Damon Rondeau]

All the advice about preventive measures, bulling your way through it, etc., is good advice. You don't want to get where you were.

Fact is, though, that it happens. For me, if the trouble is going to come, it's always going to be with my index pizz finger.

I have experience using the "Krazy Glue" method about half a dozen times or so, I guess. (I'm a woodworker and the stuff is around the shop; I'm familiar with it.) It works exceptionally well in getting you through this situation. It works very, very well. Thing is, though, you must use it before you get to where you got: with an ugly mess at the ends of your hands.

If you're going out to do a four hour gig and you haven't done stuff like that in a while, you gotta anticipate there might be trouble. After the first set you can feel the trouble coming. Your abrasion-abused finger will have a burning feeling. What you do then is ice the finger right after the set for about five minutes (get some ice in a glass from the bartender), dry it off really well, then apply the glue right over the about-to-blister area. It forms a hard enough skin to give you protection for the next set. During that next set, it will probably wear off. Repeat all the steps.

I guarantee you will survive the night. You absolutely have to anticipate the trouble though -- once you've got a huge horking blister, cracking, bleeding, all that stuff, it's too late.

You won't glue your fingers together; if you're worried about stuff like that, pick up a solvent for the glue. Krazy Glue is a cyanoacrylate glue and the solvent should be available next to the glue at any good, pro-oriented hardware store.

Also -- don't introduce any of that stuff into your blood stream. Use it on your skin only.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by bopeuph

I think I would hate to have callouses as thick as yours to where I need them filed down. When I had my callouses fully developed, they were invisible and fairly soft to the touch when I wasn't playing. When I was, they got a little discolored, but that was it. I like that. Doesn't scare away the chicks when they feel the fingertips then.

If you play as many long gigs as I do the calluses will grow. For sure. I look like I have nicotine stains on my fingers. Luckily I met my wife before my fingers got too ugly.

[charlespf]

yeah,the long gig stuff can be rough...
i remember about a year ago, i'd been playing a lot without an amp, and had a four hour
gig right as i had a few blisters which had popped open...
about fifteen minutes into it, my fingertips started to bleed all over my strings, leaving a sticky, frictiony mess. my fingers eventually numbed to the pain (though they continued to bleed), and i just plowed through the rest of the gig. That was no fun.
My fingers got so messed up that i ended up taking almost a week off playing after that to heal. And i still have blood stains on my real book.

[dman_113]

Best advice I ever got for conditioning callouses was to go to Bath and Body works and buy
a bottle of hemp oil it comes in a little oil can like machine oil, anyhow massage it into your finger tips every time you play and just wipe off the excess. Keeps them soft and thick.

[Adrian Cho]

My $0.02 here: I'm also pretty hard on my right hand and I've been through some tough times with my fingers brought on my various combinations of lots of intense playing after periods of not much playing, hot sweaty conditions, etc. I've done the Crazy Glue thing and had them bleeding under the glue and all sorts of stuff. I'm sort of relieved that I'm not the only one that has been through some of this stuff.

What I've found works for to get through things is to use sports tape. Anything else will slip off the fingers. Of course if your fingers are raw and torn and bleeding you need to put something over that first and not just apply the sports tape directly. In the past I've used fabric bandage or the high-tech blister pads and bandages and then the sports tape over the tape. After a set or two the sports tape might start disentegrating and may need to be replaced.

There is also trick which was shown to me by dancers who have to bandage their feet and dance on blisters or cuts. They use a plasterised bandage. I'm not sure if it is elastoplast or something similar but I can find out. Once you have tape up with the bandage, you burn it using a cigarette lighter, passing the lighter back and forth over the surface and it basically hardens it in a sort of mini plaster cast. I've not tried it myself but I've been there when dancers have been doing it to their feet and they swear by it.

I've been fortunate that I haven't had any such problems for the last six months and my callouses seem to be both plentiful and soft. I've found Burt's Bees Beeswax & Banana Hand Creme to be a great product to use to keep the callouses soft.

Good luck.

[bopeuph]

Update:

I found the best thing for me was the tape. I figured out the best way to wrap it. I put a little piece on the pad of the fingertip, then I wrap a 2-3 inch piece around the tip of the finger (lengthwise), then I wrap the tape from the tip to the knuckle so it's not being pulled off by the string. It stayed all night long, and it felt like a well developed callous. I tried not using the tape a little too early, and some of the loose skin pulled back and opened up. I didn't bleed too much, but it didn't feel good. I got some Neosporin and applied it every time I thought about it, which was every few hours. Now my fingers look bad, and hurt just a little, but there's no more blisters or open wounds.

One thing I've always noticed while playing a gig: my fingers will tend to get shiny! Last night, it had like a metallic luster to it. I've seen it before, but that's usually on very hard callouses. What causes the fingers to reflect like a mirror?

Nick

[GatorBass]

I used to know the feeling well. I REALLY lay into my strings. I remember being at my first big Jazz Society Jam session as a 15 year old and getting that feeling of a double attack only to find that I had formed giant blood blisters. This blistering problem continued until I finally broke down and put some hybrid nylons on it. This did wonders for taking away from the blistering, although I still get a little. As for the quick fix....... I use hockey tape/ or athletic tape. It started this way because that is what I had in my truck. Like Nick said, just a little pad on the sore spot and its doable. Still hurts, still bleeds, but a lot less damage. I still suggest if your laying in that hard, try some lower tension strings.

[Menacewarf]

Originally Posted by bopeuph

Update:


One thing I've always noticed while playing a gig: my fingers will tend to get shiny! Last night, it had like a metallic luster to it. I've seen it before, but that's usually on very hard callouses. What causes the fingers to reflect like a mirror?

Nick

I've seen that too. I'll bet it's fine metal dust from the strings removed with sweat and friction, then mixed in with the sticky wet substrate of demolished skin cells all over the callouses (or tape).

[Randy Ward]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

1) Sanding/shaping calluses before they get too ugly: On my very dry hands (I have extremely dry skin), my calluses reach a point where they start to become painful, and years of experience has shown me that shortly after this point, they will start to blister and bleed and get really foul and painful. I've found that if I file and shape the callus down to a more normal size/shape before all of this other stuff happens, most of the time the problem is averted. Pedicure files and blocks seems to be best for this purpose. The lady at the drugstore might look at you funny, but it's well worth it.

+1 on this...............
my first teacher recommended this and I'v done it ever since. as Chris says you have to do this BEFORE it is even close to opening or blistering. My first teacher also recommended doing this for the left hand fingers (if you are a righty) to 'keep it smooth' . those large gray emory boards work well for 'maintenance sanding'.

[uatubassist001]

Something that also might help is not actually popping your blisters. I had a teacher who made me play until I developed blisters, and then he showed me a little trick. Once you have a blister, take a needle and tie thread to it and run it through the blister until the thread soaks up the blister fluid. With the fluid gone, your blister will heal into a very thick, hard callus, which you can then sand or shape or do whatever you please to. I found that after about 3 rounds of taking care of blisters with a needle and thread, I stopped getting blisters, and I now have super human calluses. Just a thought.

[boombloom]

I've been to many all night bluegrass festival jams with 4 b@njos, 6 mandos, 8 fiddles, 20 guitars, several dobros and inevitable drunks with spoons, washboards etc. I make my vote for superglue. 2 coats. Don't shake hands with anyone or go to the outhouse until you're sure it's dry. Of course, after a while I began to wonder about the neurotoxic impact. Sometimes I laugh out of context....