New York guys: repertoire question

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by Snarf

I'm finding that the tunes that get called, I don't even recognize, just assuming they're Wayne Shorter tunes or something.

Really?

[chicagodoubler]

Phil,

I'm very helpful to young players, and always offer to hang and talk (which usually gets ignored, as kids these days know everything,) but I'm not about to get chewed out by *another* leader about sending an unseasoned player to bat with the big boys. I wish there was more of the sort of work where we could take risks with players but the recession has really messed up the work here and there are dozens of wolves nipping at our heels for the work that remains. Please note that I don't use the term "burning" to describe a guy with working job skills... rather as a guy who thinks Coltrane matrices and metric modulation need to go down on a Fortune 500 company's holiday party cocktail set.

*IF* guys were finishing (even with postgrad) with basic working job skills, many of us would be less hesitant to hire them but I've personally gotten burned a few times recently, and won't be the schlemazel on the receiving end of any lectures or lost gigs any time soon, thank you.

There are of course exceptions. I'd like to think that I was one of those exceptions many moons ago, and that the old guys gave me a chance because I was reverent, hard working, and was willing to do what it takes to be a working stiff. That, or they just liked checking out my hot college girlfriends.

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

............. and was willing to do what it takes to be a working stiff. That, or they just liked checking out my hot college girlfriends.

Thank you for

Rule #4:
Hot College Girlfriends gets you extra gigs and scale and a half.

[chicagodoubler]

No, Chuck. This one... she got me cartage too.

There's a joke in there about OT also, but I don't go for the low hanging fruit.

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

No, Chuck. This one... she got me cartage too.

There's a joke in there about OT also, but I don't go for the low hanging fruit.

Oh yeah baby. Hey. Are flats up or down in Chicago?

[meandering]

Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero

Cardinal Rule #1 - Never send a "burning" sub.

Cardinal Rule #2- Always confuse younger players when they ask stupid questions.

Please feel free to add more to this list.

my personal favorite rule and the one than really helped my confidence on the bandstand...

Always react in a condescending manner when a new player calls a tune you feel is beneath you or you can simply act condescending when a new guy calls any tune... e.g., fine, we can play that, if you want to...

This sure helped me learn "Cyclic Episode" in a hurry

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by meandering

my personal favorite rule and the one than really helped my confidence on the bandstand...

Always react in a condescending manner when a new player calls a tune you feel is beneath you or you can simply act condescending when a new guy calls any tune... e.g., fine, we can play that, if you want to...

This sure helped me learn "Cyclic Episode" in a hurry

OK Very well. This is

Cardinal Rule #5 - Always act condescending when a new guy calls a tune

[fdeck]

Cardinal Rule #6 - If the young player pulls out a fake book, remind him that the fake books are inaccurate.

Here are some rules from the other side of the situation:

1. The aforementioned rule of asking what key the tune is in. The pianist will reveal the entire tune to you while figuring it out, or between the Eb sax, Bb trumpet and C piano, they will debate it long enough for you to hopefully remember the changes.

2. When the BL calls an obscure tune, just hang back for a second. Between all of the other band members flipping through their mutually irreconcilable fake books, somebody will say that they don't know it, then you're off the hook. By the end of the gig they'll think that you know all of the tunes.

I learned both of these rules by accident, but they really work.

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Cardinal Rule #6 - If the young player pulls out a fake book, remind him that the fake books are inaccurate.

Here are some rules from the other side of the situation:

1. The aforementioned rule of asking what key the tune is in. The pianist will reveal the entire tune to you while figuring it out, or between the Eb sax, Bb trumpet and C piano, they will debate it long enough for you to hopefully remember the changes.

2. When the BL calls an obscure tune, just hang back for a second. Between all of the other band members flipping through their mutually irreconcilable fake books, somebody will say that they don't know it, then you're off the hook. By the end of the gig they'll think that you know all of the tunes.

I learned both of these rules by accident, but they really work.

Since 1 and 2 above are outstanding, I shall reverse them around so as to make them applicable to our list.
1 will become:

Cardinal Rule #7 - The pianist shall never reveal the entire tune to anyone, especially a younger "burning" sub.

I thank you for that and 2 will become:

Cardinal Rule #8 - When the BL calls an obscure tune, he or she shall immediately ask the new player the changes to the bridge.

[fdeck]

Those are excellent. And I propose a couple more:

9 - Avoid revealing the entire tune to anyone, even while playing the entire tune.

10 - If the "burning" sub is catching on to the changes, modulate.

[gerry grable]

Ha, ha. . .these are some funny rules.
But when I was a newbie, I never asked for any tunes. I was always too busy trying to figure out what the heck that last one was

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Gerry, you might know some of these guys.
Anyway, from a Pat Metheny interview I found online:

Trial by Fire
Although he will turn 50 this August [2004], when Metheny arrived on the scene he was hailed as a prodigy. He began playing trumpet at eight and switched to guitar at 14. After he started jamming with players in the Kansas City area, he began getting calls for gigs. "That changed my life and gave me an incredible head start. In my early days in Kansas City, I was fortunate to have been taken under the wings of some of the best players. Paul Smith was the piano player in a group led by a trumpet player named Gary Sivils. I sat right by Paul's left hand and would watch the bass notes and his voicings. I already knew the basics of harmony, but I didn't know too many tunes. Watching him play was probably the best instruction I could get.

"Another guy, an organ player named Russ Long with whom I played a lot, would intentionally run me ragged. Once he figured out that I didn't know a tune, he would always call it. After I learned it, he'd never call it again. He also played very fast tempos and played the tunes in weird keys. It was trial by fire, but it was great for me.
***************

I remember in another interview, Pat recalled that Russ asked him if he knew a very obscure tune that nobody would know. When Pat said no, Russ said, 'well kid, you're gonna learn it right now'.

The more experienced players in KC have always been very supportive and easy on the newcomers. That's been my experience at least.

[chicagodoubler]

If you want to be a real condescending prick, tell the kid who played on the most famous recordings, and which labels those albums are on... Oh wait.

[Treyzer]

You guys are brutal and obviously, like many of us, had a few musical learning experineces coming up that weren't all flowers and kisses!

[chicagodoubler]

Trey,

Have you heard the stories about coming up under guys like Blakey?

[gerry grable]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Trey,

Have you heard the stories about coming up under guys like Blakey?

Not to mention Buddy Rich

[ChuckCorbisiero]

Originally Posted by gerry grable

Not to mention Buddy Rich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-ssZeOZkWU

[Treyzer]

Originally Posted by gerry grable

Not to mention Buddy Rich

Hahaha,

I've heard quite a few stories, but certainly not all of them and of course the Buddy Rich tapes are pretty well known.

I think it's safe to say that these two guys, as well as many others, were not known for their warmth and comforting natures, however, lots of great players came through their bands. That tells you something about their methods right there!

I have some ole horn player buddies that did some time in some iteration of Buddy's bandl For a short time, I played (or rather did battle) with a great horn player (crazy person who will remain unidentified in this post) who had worked with Mr. Blakey.

Anyone care to start telling a few good stories?

[fdeck]

Is it any different than "toxic boss from hell" stories in any career?

[Treyzer]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Is it any different than "toxic boss from hell" stories in any career?

Not really Fdeck, but probably way more entertaining!