Opinions on publishing a book

musicman5string · #1 03-30-2007, 09:04 AM

Hey Guys-
What do you think of this: over the years I've transcribed alot of bass lines and solos from jazz double bassists. I've probably got 50+ transcriptions from Ray Brown, P.C., Ron Carter, Dave Holland, Rufus Reid, NHOP, and others. Over the last few months, people have been telling me that I should have this turned into a book and published. These are people "in the buisness" as it were, and at least one has published his own book.
Now, I never set out to write a book when I did these transcriptions, I just did them because that's what jazz bassists do; learn what others did and then make those ideas your own. However some people seem to think there would be a value in having this published. I know that Todd Coolman and Chuck Sher have great transcription books out. It's just that if everyone who ever did transcriptions put out a book, there'd be a thousand in the bass section of every music store.
Should I pursue this? It would really be for the sharing of my work, not really any monetary gain, because apparently the payment from a place like Hal Leonard is something like a $1500 flat fee, which in the grand scheme is not much.

I'm not sure what to do....

Ed Fuqua · #2 03-30-2007, 09:20 AM

Well, what's the "hook"? I mean to me, the primary function of transcription lies in actually doing the transcription. But that aside, Coolman's book is the "important" solos of major bassists in roughly a chronological development, Jim Stinnett is solos of PC or arco solos of PC. Phil Palombi's is Scotty solos. So, while I'm sure it's great and all, you need some theme to hold it all together. CONTEMPORARY STRAIGHT AHEAD BASS SOLOS and have alla the Mraz/Holland/Colley etc. or BASS BLUES and alla the solos over blues changes or BASS OUT FRONT and alla those solos from tunes written by a bassist or where the first chorus is the bass with the melody, you know **** like that.

musicman5string · #3 03-30-2007, 09:35 AM

Yeah, that's a great point.
I'm sure there a various angles at which it could be appraoched. I would have to think about it.
Thanks Ed.

SBassman · #4 03-30-2007, 09:54 AM

If I ever published a book, I wouldn't go to the existing publishers - I'd distribute it myself.

Before computers and the internet, this was not realistic. Now it is. Why give a publisher all the money, when you can probably sell just as many copies yourself with a little investment in time and money.

TomSauter · #5 03-30-2007, 12:27 PM

I thought about doing exactly what you're doing a couple years ago, but it started to turn into way too much work. I looked at a bunch of other transcription books, and many of them had tons of errors, didn't notate the articulation, etc. So I decided I'd have to go back and check to make sure my transcriptions were correct, which would take forever. I also had done the transcriptions over a period of years, and many of the recordings I'd used had gone out of print, and I wanted people to be able to hear a recording of the solos in the book. I thought about including a cd with all of the solos from the original recordings, but I don't know how costly it would be to pay for publishing for something like that. I've seen other books that had the author playing the solos, but that's pretty corny to me.

One good thing about a project like this is that there are not really any books of modern solos. Todd Coolman totally wussed out in his book--he has several solos apiece by Blanton, PC, Ray Brown, Oscar P., etc. but then he has 1 solo by Eddie Gomez, 1 solo by Stanley, 1 solo by Michael Moore, 1 solo by NHOP. Plus it's been a while since that book came out, so now there's Christian McBride, Bob Hurst, Patitucci, etc. as well.

dhosek · #6 03-30-2007, 02:50 PM

If you were to try to publish this, you'd need to get copyright clearance on every single solo in the book. It'd be a real bear to deal with.

Sam Sherry · #7 03-30-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhosek

If you were to try to publish this, you'd need to get copyright clearance on every single solo in the book.

Bet you're right.

Quote:

It'd be a real bear to deal with.

Not necessarily. In fact, 50 TRANSCRIPTIONS THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TROUBLE GETTING RIGHTS TO is a perfectly decent way to grow a book. (Jes' jokin' but I'll bet that if you do it you're going to wind up scuffing one or two because they're too much of a pain in the backside.)

Go get 'em. If not you then who?

Ed Fuqua · #8 04-03-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhosek

If you were to try to publish this, you'd need to get copyright clearance on every single solo in the book. It'd be a real bear to deal with.

Are you sure about that? I know that there is some push in the works to get some intellectual property rights protection for improvising artists, but currently I don't think an improvisation over harmony is 'copyrightable'.

Michael Case · #9 04-03-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Are you sure about that? I know that there is some push in the works to get some intellectual property rights protection for improvising artists, but currently I don't think an improvisation over harmony is 'copyrightable'.

If it were, wouldn't that make trouble for anyone who is recorded playing a quote from a historic solo?

Michael Case · #10 04-03-2007, 12:44 PM

From what I've seen you can publish the changes, chord progressions can't be copyrighted. Here's something weird, Phil Palombi's book of Scottie solos doesn't have the titles of the tunes in it because of copyright issues. The book is split between Sundays at the Village Vanguard and Waltz for Debbie. Each solo is just solo #1, #2, . . . that's really odd to me that he couldn't use the titles.

TheApostlePaul · #11 04-03-2007, 02:02 PM

I have published a (non bass related) book. I recommend you check out Lulu.com self publishing. You keep all the rights to the book and they publish it for you. You get your own store front on the Lulu site that you can use to pimp your book. Works great.

One thing I highly suggest is that you look into the copyright issues surrounding each tune you want to put in the book. Will probably be the hardest part of doing it but it will be well worth it in the end.

musicman5string · #12 04-03-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheApostlePaul

I have published a (non bass related) book.

Yes I have enjoyed your work in the New Testament.

Rob Hunter · #13 04-04-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Yes I have enjoyed your work in the New Testament.

Yeah, but what has he written lately?

As for copyright, when I studied copyright law 20 years ago, only melody lines and lyrics could be protected. Perhaps that's changed, but I'd be surprised if a bass solo could be copyrighted.

Maybe this link will help:
http://www.pdinfo.com/identify.htm

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, just a former journalist.

Jeff Guevin · #14 04-04-2007, 08:48 AM

My wife's a lawyer, and though intellectual property isn't her area, she agrees with Rob.

**Jeremy Allen** · #15 04-04-2007, 09:44 AM

I asked an old and well-respected entertainment lawyer in NY (I forget his name, but he represents Monk's estate) if transcriptions of improvisations were covered by copyright with just this idea in mind (that of a book), and he said that they were indeed. As with everything in life, though, the question of money makes all the difference: if there really isn't any money at stake, he indicated that one would be unlikely to be sued for copyright infringement. And of course there isn't really money at stake in the case of bass transcriptions, but this guy as a lawyer recommended that I not knowingly break the law.

I would like to hear a second opinion, though. He said that it wasn't the rights holders of the tunes themselves who could claim copyright infringement, but the artist who created the original work of art (the improviser). So while I guess I understand why Phil Palombi couldn't use the titles of the tunes in his LaFaro book, I would think he would still have to reckon with Scotty's estate because that's where those rights lie. Then again, the Coolman book uses copyrighted tunes, names and all, and presents solos by bassists still living and working, so...

I'm all for more transcriptions coming out, especially those of basslines on complete takes of tunes. My students and I are definitely best served by doing our own transcriptions, but as long as we check out the original recordings with the transcriptions we can still learn a lot. I've got a bassline book in the works (not another one! oh no! don't worry, it's just to keep me from scribbling out the same things to every student every week and will remain in-house), and it includes a lot of discussion of what bassists do over the entire course of a tune and how it relates to everything else going on (like, how the mood changes for different soloists, what's the difference between a head in and a head out, etc). The more material (transcriptions) the better.

Rob Hunter · #16 04-04-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

I would like to hear a second opinion, though.

I would like to hear another opinion as well. To me, the question is: Can you copyright an improvised recorded bass line? And if you can, does that copyright also hold on a notated transcription of that bass line?

We're dealing with "the right to duplicate" here - and I don't believe the text above addresses this.

But, again, I could be wrong….

Michael Case · #17 04-04-2007, 10:13 AM

I don't know if this will help but it seems relevant.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/propert...opyprimer.html

Jeff Guevin · #18 04-04-2007, 10:16 AM

I found an interesting discussion of the topic:

http://bristlingbadger.blogspot.com/...not-exist.html

Sam Sherry · #19 04-04-2007, 01:20 PM

Jeff, I know you mean well. I would urge everyone to be hesitant before jumping into a time-consuming project based on backyard BarBeQue advice. I mean, no offense to any bristling badgers within earshot, but . . .

And bear in mind that you're not necesarily talking about who's nailed-down right under the law. It's costly and time-consuming to prove that you have the correct position.

It brings to mind the advice found at this site.

Jeff Guevin · #20 04-04-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Jeff, I know you mean well. I would urge everyone to be hesitant before jumping into a time-consuming project based on backyard BarBeQue advice. I mean, no offense to any bristling badgers within earshot, but . . .

Sam, I guess you meant me--I do mean well, but I also didn't mean to imply that I think there's a green light for this sort of project based on some casual conversation or Internet "research." I had typed up all sorts of "get a lawyer" advice, then erased it because I figured I was just talking too much.

Not getting a legal consultation for this sort of thing, especially if self-publishing, would be foolish. Talking to a music publisher experienced in publishing transcriptions, like Sher perhaps, would be another route, though I'm personally paranoid enough that I would still get my own legal advice.

It's nice to envision a network of jazz musicians sharing their transcriptions online, for free or otherwise, but I guess without legal clarity that's not going to happen.