pizz technique

[Marc Piane]

Let me start by staying that this is not in reaction the the arco fiasco from the other thread. I will admit that thread got me thinking about it though.

At my gig tonight I started noticing the different pizz techniques I use. Often we just focus on volume and speed but I really started thinking about nuance.

I noticed I use 4 distinct pizz techniques. 1. the hook - index finger only 2. fingers together - fingertip meat 3. fingers alternate - more parallel 4. fingers alternate - more perpendicular.

What is you experience?

[TomSauter]

Same for me too, but I hardly ever play with my fingers perpendicular to the strings

[ctxbass]

I use all those as well, but my mainstay for walking is two fingers together, fairly perpendicular to the strings.

[jallenbass]

How about the speed which your finger moves across the string to play one note? I've been experimenting with a lighter touch with a fast release if that makes sense. My default way is to use a heavier touch and move kind of solwly across the string. I don't know if really sounds different but it certainly is a different experience.

[Barron]

For volume and power I get under the string and pull, usually two fingers, sometimes alternating.

For speed I use the tip of the "meat" and push, flamenco style, to get the string moving. Once it's really going I get under the string and alternate fingers for more power and clarity, depending on what's needed.




Pizzicato is like a martial art. No matter how much time you spend going through the motions, anything can happen in a real fight. Definitely a humbling experience.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I don't usually do the "perpendicular" version, but there is a lot of motion between playing at the end of the fingerboard and playing higher up when certain sounds are desired to fit the music. There is also the "brush" stroke, still with the side of the finger, but with a lot less pressure. Like anything else, it's a palette of colors to draw from depending on what the music calls for. The part I find interesting is how players who "prehear" their stuff in greater detail seem to be able to adjust both hands to produce great sustain for long, singing tones, sometimes also with vibrato.

And of course strings and setup have a lot to do with the equation. I played a student bass recently with tuned down spiro solos, and it simply had a puny sound not matter who played it. The person had thought they were getting a good sound until they heard their bass next to a couple of basses that were set up for pizz volume.

[Marc Piane]

Perpendicular is not really correct. I should have said 'more perpendicular' or something. Point is I change the angle of my attack so that I get more of a 'meat of the fingertip' attack than the side of the finger. It is not really and angle thing at all.

Chris' point about setup is huge. The way that I think about the nuance of the pizz sound has a ton to do with the setup and really (now that the weather and my bass are changing) how whatever bass I am using is behaving on a given night.

This is why the setup I have, spiro stark E with mittel A, D, G and a med high height, works for the sounds I want. I find that if I am softer in my attack with more fingertip meat and a more "brushing" attack I can get that really growly spiro thing. If I attack more with the hook and really dig in I can avoid most of that growl and get a more thumpy old school sound. Same with the alternating finger thing. It is more of a finger tip meat vs side of finger thing. I again can get a more mwah thing with the tips and more thump with the side.

Maybe, if I'm bored, I'll take some photos (maybe complete with sound clips) of that I am talking about here. It is hard to really describe.

[damonsmith]

I am using Spiro solos tuned down, now that they have broken I am getting a nice strong sound. I have a loud bass already, and I think it is speaking better with less tension on it.

I do a lot of different things, my main thing is two fingers together like a hook, I arc my hand over the unplayed strings so the they can still resonate when pitches in their respective overtone series are played.
I sometimes do some one finger tremolos, for chords I strum with my thumb, finger-pick with two fingers + or all four fingers in a flamenco strum.
I tend to play near the edge of the fingerboard but come back low as the music demands.

[Marc Piane]

Yup. I strum with the meat of my thumb and occasionally fingerpick with my thumb and first two fingers. I play a bit of guitar so that fingerpicking technique is what I know.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I sometimes do some one singer tremolos....

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by fingers

Perpendicular is not really correct. I should have said 'more perpendicular' or something. Point is I change the angle of my attack so that I get more of a 'meat of the fingertip' attack than the side of the finger. It is not really and angle thing at all.

I can dig it.

Originally Posted by KINGOFPAINE

This is why the setup I have, spiro stark E with mittel A, D, G and a med high height, works for the sounds I want. I find that if I am softer in my attack with more fingertip meat and a more "brushing" attack I can get that really growly spiro thing. If I attack more with the hook and really dig in I can avoid most of that growl and get a more thumpy old school sound. Same with the alternating finger thing. It is more of a finger tip meat vs side of finger thing. I again can get a more mwah thing with the tips and more thump with the side.

Agreed. There's also a huge LH component to the amount of growl for me: Fingertips produces a clearer less complicated tone, while pads produce a really colorful growl. In between the two, there are an amazing amount of tonal variables IME.

Maybe, if I'm bored, I'll take some photos (maybe complete with sound clips) of that I am talking about here. It is hard to really describe.

That would be very cool, but I bet you'd have to be pretty bored.

[hdiddy]

+1 on the growl thing. Yeah you have to work the LH to produce the growl esp on my student bass. Better basses it seems to be easier to pull that growl out.

Don't forget there's rakes.... with one finger or the other or both fingers. Rakes are more parallel?

There's also the chicken wing thing which kinda throws a spin on everything... esp with tempo. I guess I would pull less with the fingers and more with the body. What do you guys do?

There are also nuances depending on the string... some are louder than others for instance with the Planet Wing. I don't think I can pull the lower strings equally hard cuz sometimes I get a a really loud snap that comes back or something.

I also want to say there's soemthing about legato notes... there's something different about them with the right hand to make it nice and groovy. I think most of this stuff is touchy-feely so its kinda hard to describe.

[Clay_Bass]

I'm mostly doing one finger but not really a hook thing. The finger is fairly straight, and then "retake" in which I bring the finger back up off the string, hard to really explain in words. I also use 2 fingers together at like a 45degree angle(got that from Doug Weiss), 2 fingers alternating parallel like Christian, and sometimes 3 fingers for some strum flamenco-ish kind of things.

[Treyzer]

Wow, unreal....

Thanks everyone for sharing. I do pretty much what Fingers and Chris do. The tone changes by moving my pizz (right hand) up or down the fingerbooard. Typically, if I'm laying down time, my right hand is at the bottom or right below the fingerboard. Typically, I'll use two fingers. Ballads, usually a softer attack & more sustain..yes of course the left hand has lots to do with sustain and growl. During fast passages in solos are while I'm in thumb position (probably too much), my two fingers are more parallel. Above all, I concentrate on being relaxed and not pulling so hard that I lose fluidity and choke the overall tone.

It seems that the more I think about it, (which is probably not very often, that there is a ton of technique and nuance involved. Jazz pizz playing at the very least, could take up a few chapters in someone's jazz teaching book!

All the best guys!

[Treyzer]

P.S. I like the "tone" of this particular thread!

[hdiddy]

Does anybody "choke up" with the right hand when playing fast passages? Obviously you have to borrow the "play towards the bridge with higher notes" from the arco world. But do you play further away from the bridge during fast runs cuz there's less tension (and also less attack of course)?

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by Treyzer

Above all, I concentrate on being relaxed and not pulling so hard that I lose fluidity and choke the overall tone.

Absolutely. I think there is a bit of a myth out there that brute force produces big tone and volume.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

There's also the chicken wing thing which kinda throws a spin on everything... esp with tempo. I guess I would pull less with the fingers and more with the body. What do you guys do?

I practice different divisions with the chicken wing. At the quarter note level or below, I'll usually go with a one finger technique, where at the 8th note level or above, I'll go with two or three. But the most useful thing I've been working on is the idea of practicing one "chicken wing flap" per beat while working on the following divisions: (half), quarter, 8th, triplet 8th, 16th. At the smaller divisions, there's the accented "splash" of the stone (first note) entering the water (created by the dropping of the arm/elbow) and the "ripples" (other notes in the division) emanating from the splash; these unaccented notes are produced as the arm is making the "upswing" part of the circle.

When playing tempos, this technique comes in handy, as you can pretend that a measure of fast quarter notes is like a measure of 16th notes at 25% of that tempo, and thereby reduce the amount of large motions you are making while still nailing the tempo.

Hope the above made sense - if not, I have a page of scale exercises I could upload to illustrate it if anyone has eyes.

[Treyzer]

Chris,

I'd love to see that!

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

When playing tempos, this technique comes in handy, as you can pretend that a measure of fast quarter notes is like a measure of 16th notes at 25% of that tempo, and thereby reduce the amount of large motions you are making while still nailing the tempo.

Yup. When you think of it, you could easily play an etude written that way, so there's no reason to think that you can't walk at fast tempos. I think of it almost as a mind over matter thing.