Play something melodic,and they will come.

[R Whiteman]

As a professional jazz pianist in Toronto I've been able to work with some excellent bassists. In small jazz groups I've noticed that bassists,when soloing,hold the spotlight easily: the band is quieter behind them; there is the visual aspect of someone playing a beautiful instrument and the bass' low register imparts depth and character to almost any musical utterance.
Being the centre of attention should not be abused.
If the bassist plays a solo that is concise,melodic, rhythmically
clear and in-tune she can "waste" the rest of the band.

I have been studying the double bass for three years and have
reached the stage where I can walk through most tunes and solo on slow-medium tempos. Having limited(very!)chops on a second instrument is very instructive. Everything you play has to be developmental otherwise you will sound trite and exhibit
the "less-is-less" phenomenon.

[]Simple ideas that sound banal and naive on other instruments, like the piano, can sound profound on the the bass. Bassists should keep that mind.[/I] While chops and dexterity are necessary, playing something clear, melodic and
and intelligent will always a be good default strategy.

Just some thoughts....

[juanete]

[]Simple ideas that sound banal and naive on other instruments, like the piano, can sound profound on the the bass. Bassists should keep that mind.[/I]

+1
The sound of our instrument itself can make a simple melodic line very profound at times. (for example Jaco playing "a remark you made" with weather report...) this would probably would sound like s#@$ on a guitar or piano...

[Michael Case]

My old teacher used to tell me that all the time. I used to find so hard to just play solid melodic ideas feeling like I had to hold everything up after some high octane piano, sax, guitar solos. But once I let myself just shut up and play a simple idea and let unfold from there it was an amazing experience. It's a great feeling when you feel like you actually said something and didn't just vomit out a ton of notes.

[Marc Piane]

I think a big key for me to it is to not try to 'compete' on a chops level with the other soloists. I agree with Mike that after sax, piano, guitar, and trumpet have played a million notes a piece it is hard not to get into that noodlefest. I like the 'vomit a ton of notes' thing. Not to diminish guys who play to ton of notes. Some soloists are really good at it. I'm not one of them.

I definitely get the best response from people when I play a well thought out and melodic solo. For me, when my solo comes around, I take a deep breath and try to clear my mind of all the notes I heard from soloists before me and let MY ideas flow.

[musicman5string]

I'm with you 100%.

[philip sirois]

Originally Posted by mike da mook

It's a great feeling when you feel like you actually said something

I'll add to this by saying that when your actually saying something, going somewhere unexpected and interesting is much more likely. That barrage of notes sounds pretty much the same all the time.

That being said, in my short tenure as a double bassist I've figured out one thing: learning to say something consistently is harder than learning to play the barrage.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by philip sirois

I'll add to this by saying that when your actually saying something, going somewhere unexpected and interesting is much more likely. That barrage of notes sounds pretty much the same all the time.

That being said, in my short tenure as a double bassist I've figured out one thing: learning to say something consistently is harder than learning to play the barrage.

+1

I was checking out your art Philip. Real nice stuff. I dig it.

[musicman5string]

I wish other instrumentalists would get this concept too. I sometimes play with this guitar player who has more chops than John mcLaughlin. He always does this: gets some high paying gig at a society function where all we need to do is be swinging and playing with taste. It always winds up being the guitar jackoff extravaganza in the middle of "Satin Doll" as the old ladies are dancing. Never gets called again for the gig, and wonders why.

[Michael Case]

Mark,

I agree that some players can play a barrage of notes that work. They have the chops and the ideas to do it. When I try it it's just vomiting a ton of notes like I described earlier. I remember talking to my teacher about this and told me not to worry about what else has happened and just use your own voice. That a solid melodic bass solo can be a good contrast to the fast and furious solos that have come before it. That made me rethink a lot of things since my teacher is the guy for fast, furious, and melodic bass solos.

[jallenbass]

I like listening to Slam Stewart's solos on the Art Tatum recordings. No bass player could ever compete with Tatum and Slam doesn't try to. Just beautiful melodic playing. Any technical playing is just to embellish his melodic ideas.

[neal davis]

I agree with you richard, but let me guess brandi played a really melodic solo and knocked everyone on their butt? man she's sounding better then ever lately. Are you still doing the early show at the rex ? if so let me know I'll try and pop by when I not playing. hope all is well

[Sam Sherry]

Well, I guess it falls to me to speak up for bassists who don't always want to hang back. Kind of ironic: There are some real good players around here and here's me, Captain Blort, front and center. Here goes nothing . . .

Originally Posted by R Whiteman

While chops and dexterity are necessary, playing something clear, melodic and and intelligent will always a be good default strategy.

Many thanks for your post. I understand and respect where you're coming from.

I'm not looking for a default strategy. I'm looking to make music. I want to sound like a musician, not like a "bass player." My goal is to play something that is as clear, melodic, intelligent, passionate and fluid as Miles Davis or Michael Brecker. I may not hit that mark in this lifetime but it's where the bar is set for musicians who don't happen to be bassists.

I don't want to do it just to do it. I want to do it because that's the music I hear. I hear slow, fast, high, low, simple, complex . . . doesn't everybody?

Originally Posted by R Whiteman

Simple ideas that sound banal and naive on other instruments, like the piano, can sound profound on the the bass. Bassists should keep that mind.

We disagree. Banal is banal, whether it's banal tenor, DB or harmonica.

People have gotten used to cutting bass-players slack. Too bad.

Originally Posted by fingers

I think a big key for me to it is to not try to 'compete' on a chops level with the other soloists.

I'm not trying to compete with anybody. I'm trying to make music. That requires me to play with a musical level of intensity. Most of the time it's musical for us to bring it just as hard as the guy before and the guy after. I'm damned if I'm gonna be the guy who drags down the music just to meet someone else's misplaced expectations for "generic bass."

Originally Posted by fingers

I don't like the 'vomit a ton of notes' thing.

Me neither. Bad sheets of sound is just bad sheet, on any instrument.

Bottom line, pun intended: I'm trying to be a musician by playing the bass. Have fun. I'm out.

[Michael Case]

I agree with all you're saying Sam, I guess my point is while I'm striving to reach the level of playing you're talking about I know what my abilities (ear and hands) are right now. I certainly don't want to be the guy dragging the music down, but I know that I'm at my most musical when I play what I can hear at that moment. Sometimes it is more eighth-notey sometimes it's not. My goal is to play what I hear and feel IN THE MOMENT, not some standard set by someone else (even though I want to reach that standard). When I force out ideas based on what I think I am supposed to play, instead of what I hear/feel, it's usually crap.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Ed Fuqua]

It's not about simple or complex or chops or no chops or banal or profound or whatever. It's about PLAYING WHAT YOU HEAR. If you HEAR it, PLAY it. If you DON'T, just take your hand off the instrument.

Richard, dear, I know you mean well. But it woudn't matter HOW complex an idea was or HOW many notes it was, if the musician playing it heard it in the context of their musical environment, it's going to communicate.

Because THAT'S the key and that's the thing that even the most jaded (or most naive) audience can pick up on. That those folks up on stage aren't just dropping their fingers on the instrument, but are actually listening to each other and trying to communicate with each other.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by R Whiteman

As a professional jazz pianist in Toronto I've been able to work with some excellent bassists. In small jazz groups I've noticed that bassists,when soloing,hold the spotlight easily: the band is quieter behind them; there is the visual aspect of someone playing a beautiful instrument and the bass' low register imparts depth and character to almost any musical utterance.

I think this very much depends on the audience and how sensitive they are.

So I have been at many Jazz gigs where the audience is really listening and you can hear a pin drop when the bass solos - people keep quiet and appreciate a moment of calm amid the storms of 15 minute sax solos!

On the other hand I have been in the audience at just as many gigs where the others around me, have actually been more interested in catching up with their friends, loudly ordering drinks from the bar, laughing and joking so loudly that even the mic'd announcements are lost in the maelstrom!!

At such times, the bass line becomes a low throb somewhere over there and a bass solo is an excuse for those in the crowd who feel like it, to head for the toilets, as there is no chance of hearing any of the music at that volume anyway!

[musicman5string]

I think the original poster was just trying to say "don't waste notes during a bass solo" which is something I think most would agree with. That doesn't mean it has to be a limited amount of notes, just notes that mean something, whether it's 4 or 4 thousand.
I also think he was saying there are other instrumentalists who abuse their solos because of the chops factor at times.
At least that's how I understood his post.

[R Whiteman]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

I think the original poster was just trying to say "don't waste notes during a bass solo" which is something I think most would agree with. That doesn't mean it has to be a limited amount of notes, just notes that mean something, whether it's 4 or 4 thousand.
I also think he was saying there are other instrumentalists who abuse their solos because of the chops factor at times.
At least that's how I understood his post.

That's exactly what I was talking about.
Next time I post something I'll try to be more precise!

[HolmeBass]

I thought this post was great, even with the nit picking. Definitely far above the usual "should I get a Jazz bass?" kind of thing, this was about music, which is to a large extent ineffible and enigmatic. Why do people love music? Why do you? How can you make better music? There just are no stock, one-size-fits-all answers to these kinds of questions.

[R Whiteman]

One way to improve all bass solos is to have bassists
play faultlessly the melody to every tune they know.
Once they can do that, they may be unwilling to lower the
quality music quotient in their solos.

(As if there isn't enough time in the day already... )

Thank-you to all the bassists at Talk Bass for the input and the opportunity to slack-off in a most enjoyable way.
Richard Whiteman

[R Whiteman]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

It's not about simple or complex or chops or no chops or banal or profound or whatever. It's about PLAYING WHAT YOU HEAR. If you HEAR it, PLAY it. If you DON'T, just take your hand off the instrument.

Richard, dear, I know you mean well. But it woudn't matter HOW complex an idea was or HOW many notes it was, if the musician playing it heard it in the context of their musical environment, it's going to communicate.

Because THAT'S the key and that's the thing that even the most jaded (or most naive) audience can pick up on. That those folks up on stage aren't just dropping their fingers on the instrument, but are actually listening to each other and trying to communicate with each other.

Ed:
I couldn't agree more.I posted my comment because I think
one of the most appealing aspects ot the bass is that concise musical ideas just sound particularly special
when played on it. The instrument can be a vehicle for
any musical utterance, of course.

Regards,
Richard