Playing in tune? Handset?

[theodore]

I'm wondering if other bassists here have some tips on how to play in tune and what it means for them to do so?

I'm particularly interested in
-how to execute a shift properly
-how to keep your LH shaped properly in lower positions
-how to keep the LH shaped properly in thumb position
-different spacings of the LH and also LH fingers and thumb both in upper and lower registers
-use of the LH with crab technique

What kind of exercises can one do to improve intonation?

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Well Simandl is considered the Bible. The Bille books are nice but the 3rd finger replaces the 2nd in that method. The Bottesini Book is melodic and progressive. The Levinson Book is great if you have completed all the positions in the Simandl. You need a teacher to correct bad habits and point out your intonation flaws. There are so many opinions out there today, one can go crazy trying them all at the drop of a hat. I suggest getting a professional Symphony player to teach/coach you and keep you on track. Then all you have to do is practice alot, play alot, join an orchestra and then see where you stand. The proof is always in the Pudding!

Do a search in 'Orchestral Technique' forum and read into this a bit.

[ToR-Tu-Ra]

Hmmm... I think the answer to all of that is:

Practice, practice, practice and a whole lotta practice

It's about developing muscle memory and OF COURSE a good ear (two of them if possible )

[theodore]

Thanks for the replies. I guess to clarify a bit more on my original question, say that you are usually in tune while playing, and then a certain note or passage is out of tune. What possible causes would you identify (faulty ear, improper shift, etc)?

If you have a passage to play that requires your hand falls into a certain position ie thumb position +123 gabc, how do you make sure each finger lands on the same note every time?

Theo

[ToR-Tu-Ra]

If you can tell it's outta tune, then I'd say your ear is working fine and what needs work is your left hand. It needs some time to get used to fall in the exact place.

[anonymous0726]

Lead with your ear. You have to hear the pitch clearly in your mind's ear and then just play it. As soon as you think about it you're going to blow it. The truth is that you're always going to miss notes to some extent, as there are so many variables that go into the production of pitch -- especially arco. If the note is strong in your ear your hands with fix things before they sound bad. If you listen really closely to Edgar Meyer, arguable one of the most in-tune bass players around, you hear him adjusting all over the place. Small adjustments, and not as frequent as the average bear, but there nonetheless.

If there is a particular shift or passage that you tend to blow, isolate it and fix it. Then apply the sentences above.

[jallenbass]

Your ear definitely has to hear pitch very well. To increase the odds of playing pitches correctly a well formed hand position is recommended. Use a mirror to check that you can maintain correct half-step spacing between 1,2 and 4. If that varies you're fighting an uphill battle IMO.

[Johnny L]

I want to say that practicing my singing has helped me with my intonation but I don't really know.

[anonymous0726]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

maintain correct half-step spacing between 1,2 and 4.

I believe that this is a shorter path to hand problems and actually does little to help you play in tune. No having your hadn all wierd is definitely a plus. I prefer the left had to be loose and fluid -- to the extreme -- so that small, quick adjustments are more possible.

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

I believe that this is a shorter path to hand problems and actually does little to help you play in tune. No having your hadn all wierd is definitely a plus. I prefer the left had to be loose and fluid -- to the extreme -- so that small, quick adjustments are more possible.

I understand what you're saying but I've never had any LH problems. I assume that you mean injury. I think that you can have a loose and disciplined hand form. When I have tried to have a more fluid hand form I didn't really gain any facility and my intonation got wobbly.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by theodore

I'm particularly interested in
-how to execute a shift properly

To be honest I don't know how to do this properly either. All I've ever done is the vomit exercises and scales over and over and over (still doing them)...maybe one day I'll get this shifting thing down

-how to keep your LH shaped properly in lower positions

I try to keep my fingers arched. My teacher had this "c-shape" that for him was the defacto standard for left hand position. It looks a lot like jallenbass' left hand in his avatar...gotta play on your fingertips. Myself, I try to keep the fingers arched high enough so that they let the adjacent strings ring sympathetically and the bass sounds richer for it to me. But through an amp it sometimes comes across as feedback LOL...like when I play the low C on the A string I can hear the G harmonic ring in sympathy...it's just something I like to achieve acoustically.

-how to keep the LH shaped properly in thumb position
-different spacings of the LH and also LH fingers and thumb both in upper and lower registers

I try to stick with keeping the fingers arched and playing on the fingertips here too...no collapsing of the fingertip knuckle and playing on the flat of the finger. But I've seen string players do the latter and not suffer (Yo Yo Ma, for example, doesn't seem to care and he's awesome). It's just that I picked up Ed Barker's solo CD on a whim in a record store and he fingers lines so solid you can hear the "snap" when the string contacts the fingerboard, I want that sound, and flat fingers don't make it happen for me.

-use of the LH with crab technique

You're miles ahead of me on this one I'm still working on getting the scales in tune when I'm playing across the strings in TP right now

What kind of exercises can one do to improve intonation?

Scales scales scales scales scales and it sucks sucks suck it's boring boring boring. So far, I've been watching closed-caption TV to help me tolerate it and looking for baseball games (I've heard one violinist confess he would secretly read comics as a kid while he practiced scales on a show I saw on PBS *LOL*). I've been doing them for several months now and yes it has helped me with shifting and intonation and general facility immensely.

I've learned that as a beginner (myself included) it's best to get inflexible advice regarding technique and general instruction. But when my own teacher would play things to let me hear how something was supposed to sound (I didn't know what basses were supposed to sound like at the time man I was so green), he just played it and got'er done how he wanted it done...and of course it sounded awesome and would just stun me. It's like when Brad Pitt makes fun of this other actor in the movie Troy during sword-practice, "When you know how to use it, you won't be taking my advice."

[anonymous0726]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

I understand what you're saying but I've never had any LH problems...

I did have pretty bad tendinitis in my left wrist, so I generally jump when I see advice -- almost all of it standard advice -- that I feel was part of my demise.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Scales are cool but interval double stops should also be part of the practice regiment. Take a position, say, 6th position. Then bow all the permutations of intervals possible in that position. On all four strings.

For example play the following:

Form a minor third with the pinky on the "b" on the d-string and the first finger on the "d" on the g-string. Follow?

Play the doublestop for two beats then while holding the pinky down on b, place the second finger down on the g-string on "d#" and play that major third for two beats.

Repeat....focusing on getting both the minor third and the major third in tune.

Another one:

Form a perfect 5th with your first finger on the "a" on the d-string and your pinky on the ""e" on the g-string. Hold for two beats then while holding down the "a", play the "e flat" on the g- string with your second finger..play that flattened fifth interval for two beats...repeat until tired. Best to have that second finger down the whole time whether your playing that note or not.

There are at least six intervalic permutations that I can think of using two strings for thirds and fifths- major and minor. If you do this all over the board you will notice that your fingers are finding those intervals better as time goes on, less fidgeting for notes, plus your ears get a workout. This can be a hard excercise because it really works the forearm. Don't do too much too fast and pick easier positions in the middle of the neck and get used to it before you start hammering intervals in half position.

Hey Jason thanks that's a great idea I'm going to start doing this!

[JayR]

Movable Do sightsinging helps a lot with intonation. As soon as I started college music theory a couple of years ago and started having to get used to sightsinging (something I never had to do before) my intonation got a lot, lot better. Knowing the relationship between notes and how each interval sounds is most of the battle.