Right hand articulation when playing skips?

[1987]

Hey,

I've been transcribing Ron Carter recently and I'm noticing he often plays 8th note skips on the same string as the previous note he's just played. At the moment I'm finding this somewhat awkward to emulate. Most of the lines I've transcribed so far are playable using primarily the index finger but when I bring my middle finger in to play the skip things seem to get messy. One thing I've noticed is that if I'm playing primarily with my index finger my middle finger tends seems more comfortable curling in towards the palm with my other fingers. Is this something I should avoid? Any suggestions/help is much appreciated.

[hdiddy]

Not sure what you mean... are you talking about him doing a Pull-off? If so it's a very common technique. Guitarists use it a lot too.

[Ike Harris]

I remember him doing a thing like that with 4th space G. It's an open G played alongside a fingered G. Same note, different sound. Sax players do it with alternate fingerings or something.

[mattfong]

I think he's talking about a little skip beat/muted note kinda thing. Like a little hiccup before your next note in a walking line.

[greitzer]

Right Matthew, that's what I think he meant also.

1987, those skip notes can be hard to figure out in terms of the right-hand technique. I think you need to find the right angle to hold your hand at, so that the middle finger doesn't trip over the index finger.

I think it's a pretty individual thing, although I've read other posts here on TB that suggest positioning your hand so that the middle finger is roughly the same "length" over the strings as your index finger (i.e., hold your hand and fingers at something like a 45-degree angle down rather than holding your fingers straight across the strings). Others may be able to explain this better than me. I think that's pretty much what I do.

Keep experimenting until you find a hand position that will enable your middle finger to hit the skip notes. For me, part of this involves making sure the fourth and pinkie fingers are out of the way, so the middle finger has room to hit the string and then move out of your index finger's way.

There is a good DVD video by Ed Friedland called "Jazz Upright Bass", published by Hal-Leonard, where he gives some good instruction on right-hand technique. Other than that video, I haven't found any books or videos that give much insight into jazz technique for the right hand; it's ignored by most, and for me it's been the hardest part of jazz technique to figure out.

[emilio g]

"modern walking bass technique" by mike richmond dicusses this. Playing through that book really got my walking to sound much more professional in only a year or two. Mike transcribed LOTS of Ron Carter and clearly explains the techniques to getting skips and pull offs to sound right. Definitely worth checking out.


Also, I've done a lot of work playing with the side of my finger vs. the tip playing "across" the string like an electric player. Both have different sounds and offer different pros and cons from a technical standpoint.

[chop_1992]

There are three ways to do it:
1. Mute the G string with both the index and middle r.h. fingers by resting both fingers on the string. Pluck the G with the middle finger while still muting the G string (you get a plucked, muted, dead note). Then pluck the G string with the index finger and let the note ring.
2. Mute both the G and D string with the middle and index r.h. fingers. Pluck the D string with the middle finger while still muting both strings (you get a plucked, muted, dead note, this time on the D). Then pluck the note on the G string with the index finger.
3. Mute the string with your l.h. fingers, play a dead note with the middle l.h. finger, then play the note you want, plucking with the r.h. index finger.

It just takes slow practice to get this—it's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head. Well, it's not exactly like that, but you get the idea.

Play slow quarters with your r.h. index finger, then add one of the dead-note techniques above on the + of the beats with you l.h. middle finger (the "and" of the beat—a triplet eighth pickup before the quarter note with your index finger). Once you get the basic motion, you can move the techniques up and down the bass or across to other strings.

Good luck!

[MingusAmongUs]

At the risk of sounding like your teacher, I have to say that any GOOD teacher will tell you to make sure you have the fundamentals -- good tone and good time -- before you even go there.

Maybe you already have that stuff together, but that's an important thing to consider. The other stuff is windows dressing and like everything else, is personal and only comes with practice.

[chop_1992]

Originally Posted by 1987

Hey,

I've been transcribing Ron Carter recently and I'm noticing he often plays 8th note skips on the same string as the previous note he's just played. At the moment I'm finding this somewhat awkward to emulate. Most of the lines I've transcribed so far are playable using primarily the index finger but when I bring my middle finger in to play the skip things seem to get messy. One thing I've noticed is that if I'm playing primarily with my index finger my middle finger tends seems more comfortable curling in towards the palm with my other fingers. Is this something I should avoid? Any suggestions/help is much appreciated.

After looking at your orignal post I thought I would suggest that you watch some of the Ron videos on YouTube like this one.

Ron usually keeps both index and middle together, and he plays most of the quarter notes with index and a lot of the embellishments with the middle.

You should make sure your hands are relaxed, but in the right position to create the sounds you want.

[chancletarock]

I went to upright from electric, and when I do this sort of thing I feel like it's based in my funk-playing days on the the latter. The one finger technique is golden for meaty notes but if you're going super fast, there's no shame in using your middle finger for a skip (my teacher calls them stutter steps) - especially because you probably don't need a humongous sound for the mutes/stutters. So if you played electric, treat it like that for a second! If not, I'd say practice playing the same note in eighths with a two-finger right-hand technique and un-fingering the second eighth until it feels natural. Good luck!

[chancletarock]

Forgot to say you don't always need to reproduce the exact technique of a player to get the sound they're getting - hands/basses/people/etc. are all different right?

[Steve Killingsworth]

Originally Posted by chop_1992

There are three ways to do it:
1. Mute the G string with both the index and middle r.h. fingers by resting both fingers on the string. Pluck the G with the middle finger while still muting the G string (you get a plucked, muted, dead note). Then pluck the G string with the index finger and let the note ring.
2. Mute both the G and D string with the middle and index r.h. fingers. Pluck the D string with the middle finger while still muting both strings (you get a plucked, muted, dead note, this time on the D). Then pluck the note on the G string with the index finger.
3. Mute the string with your l.h. fingers, play a dead note with the middle l.h. finger, then play the note you want, plucking with the r.h. index finger.

It just takes slow practice to get this—it's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head. Well, it's not exactly like that, but you get the idea.

Play slow quarters with your r.h. index finger, then add one of the dead-note techniques above on the + of the beats with you l.h. middle finger (the "and" of the beat—a triplet eighth pickup before the quarter note with your index finger). Once you get the basic motion, you can move the techniques up and down the bass or across to other strings.

Good luck!

Thanks John. Playing mostly bluegrass, I don't often have an opportunity to slip a in a skip and have rarely been able to do it cleanly when I tried. Your #1 recomendation works pretty well for me. Your description is simple and clearly explained.

Now all I need is a few years to master it.

Thanks again.

[bolo]

John's #1 is what I do. Self taught (copied rather) after watching a friend of mine do it. John sure explained it clearly and concisely though. What a great post!

I will second the recommendation for Ed Friedland's Jazz Upright Bass DVD. Best demonstration of rhythmic embellishments like skips, pull-offs, and triplets that I have come across yet. Also includes a nice primer on right hand pizz technique for beginners. The section on TP is excellent too.