Right Hand Thumb Position

[Moondog]

Hey Guys

I am a newbie to DB and I'm not sure the correct way to use my right hand thumb. Right now I don't have a teacher. I've played electric bass for years, and have always rested my thumb on tthe string above the one I'm playing. However I have seen some DB players live keeping their thumb anchored under the edge of the fingerboard. Of course the way I've been doing it feels much more natural to me but is this the correct technique for DB? If it makes any difference, right now I'm playing blues, country, bluegrass, and other "roots" music. Thanks for any input/suggestions on this.

[T-Bal]

The best place is on the side of the fingerboard, not underneath. Check all of the past threads re. R.H. technique, there's a lot of good info there.

[Paul Warburton]

[quote]Originally posted by T-Bal
[b]The best place is on the side of the fingerboard, not underneath.

Whoa!! I've been anchoring my right hand with my thumb underneath the fingerboard for about 45 years!! I don't mean I do this exclusively..sometimes under, on the edge, depending on what i'm doing..playing time, soloing, etc. Sometimes you don't need to even put your thumb on the board at all..like playing double stops.
To say that the best place is on the edge, is a little off the wall....I actually learned to clip the fingerboard with my thumb by watching people like Ray Brown play. It's a great way to start your walking...When you get down to the E string, your thumb, of course has to come out to the edge. Anyway, this happens very automatically.
As T-Bal suggests, do check all threads on R.H.
You mention "correct technique" for DB. IMHO, there's no such thing...Whatever works for you! Did you ever watch Charlie Haden play? His left hand looks like he's choking a snake, but listen to what comes out.
Watching other players is one of the most fun and informative things you can do for yourself. It's also very inspiring. Whether it's Gary Karr or Charlie Haden, keep your eyes peeled!

[T-Bal]

OK, let me rephrase. The best place for me is on the side of the fingerboard. I've seen several techniques, and as with many things in life there is more than one way to skin a cat (no hip jazz parlance intended). What's best for you will depend on your physical makeup, the sound you are trying to achieve, what style of music you play, etc. In addition to watching as many different players as possible, get with a good teacher who can give you exercises for developing your technique.

For me, placing the thumb on the side allows me to use a pincher-like motion, giving me greater leverage to be able to pull more sound out of the string (I use 1st and 2nd fused side-by-side for walking, alternating for solos and super fast tempi). The thumb does rotate towards the back slightly when I play the E string. The other aspect of this placement is that the thumb acts as a pivot point for the larger motion of the whole arm, which to my way of thinking is essential for strong pizzing.

Paul, I love all of your cuts on the sampler. Also, Sam was kind enough to lend me his copy of the Secret Garden session, which is sublime.

[Paul Warburton]

Paul, I love all of your cuts on the sampler. Also, Sam was kind enough to lend me his copy of the Secret Garden session, which is sublime. [/b][/quote]

Thanks T, for rephrasing your point and well put BTY. Another point i'd like to make concerning the right hand....When trying for different sounds with your pizz, another rule of thunb, for me, is rather than pulling straight across the strings, pull in a "pinching motion" as T-Bal mentions or, in other words, SQUEEZE the tone out, pulling the string in a downward motion towards the fingerboard while pulling towards your body at the same time. Between the both of us, Moondog, you should be set in the right direction.
Thanks, also T, for mentioning the Secret Garden sessions. I especially like the Lost in a Dream cut for the interplay and feel. Unfortunatly, being recorded in the 80s,the engineer went "Dreaded Direct" to the board. After years of this, double bassists have finally convinced engineers to deal with the acoustic beauties of our instument.

[Moondog]

Hey guys this is great info. Since I am a newbie I just want to make sure that I am not developing a style that will be problematic or that I will have to change later. I have short fingers so at this time I am not using the fingerboard to anchor at all. (it's a real stretch for me and feels awkward) Rather, I anchor my thumb on the next string up from the one I am playing. This feels more natural to me and I seem to be getting a pretty strong pull on the string. Are there any other players that play this way? Are there any disadvantages? All input is appreciated.

Thanks again

Moondog

[T-Bal]

Originally posted by Moondog
I anchor my thumb on the next string up from the one I am playing. This feels more natural to me and I seem to be getting a pretty strong pull on the string. Are there any other players that play this way? Are there any disadvantages?

I'm not aware of anyone using this technique, but that's not to say it won't work for you. The issue for me is leverage. If you're anchoring on an adjacent string, that's not stationary, and you don't have as much leverage as if it were achored to a stationary object. Also, every time you cross strings, you have to reposition your thumb, and that seems like an extra task that you may just as well eliminate. See if you can get used to the stretch. There are exercises pianists do to increase the span they can reach, maybe these would apply here. OTOH, if your fingers are THAT small, you may have even greater challenges with your left hand.

BTW, I personally find that my R.H. motion is all sideways, and not into the board, but of course, to each his own.

Good luck!

[Don Higdon]

Originally posted by Moondog
I have short fingers so at this time I am not using the fingerboard to anchor at all. (it's a real stretch for me and feels awkward) Rather, I anchor my thumb on the next string up from the one I am playing. This feels more natural to me Moondog

The problem with habits is that they come to feel good and "right", even bad ones that limit you or even harm you.
The sooner you get out of this one, the better.

[Paul Warburton]

I guess what got me into playing INTO the FB was that little "click" that some of the great players would get, especially Ray Brown and Red Mitchell, after producing the tone, of their finger hitting the FB.

[Eric Jackson]

Whenever possible, especially when playing slower, quieter tunes, I use the side of my index finger from the second knuckle down to play the E string with a motion which results in my finger coming to rest on top of the fingerboard after releasing the string. It's like, push the string towards the board then release it. (does that description make sense?) I find it produces a nice fat, growly, sustaining sound, moreso than pulling the string sideways and releasing it. Gotta be careful not to pump it too hard and rattle it off the board, though.

It's amazing how such a slight change in approach changes the sound you produce.

[Eric Jackson]

Lunarpooch, if you're used to playing electric bass, resting the thumb on a string might feel natural, and the DB strings may seem a great distance apart. I'd suggest you start by anchoring the ball of your thumb against the side of the fingerboard with the thumb pointed down towards the floor, and learn to reach the G string with your index and middle fingers. You'll have much more success getting a sound out of the instrument. You gotta make the string and the body vibrate, you can't rely on amplification.

Ps- Start by playing the strings at a point about 3-4" above the end of the fingerboard. Like a slab, you'll get different sounds by moving closer to or farther from the bridge.

[T-Bal]

Originally posted by Paul Warburton
I guess what got me into playing INTO the FB was that little "click" that some of the great players would get, especially Ray Brown and Red Mitchell, after producing the tone, of their finger hitting the FB.

It seems like you would need fairly high action to allow this to happen, true? And are you using the side of your index finger or what?

[Paul Warburton]

[quote]Originally posted by Eric Jackson
I use the side of my index finger from the second knuckle down to play the E string with a motion which results in my finger coming to rest on top of the fingerboard after releasing the string. It's like, push the string towards the board then release it. (does that description make sense?) I find it produces a nice fat, growly, sustaining sound, moreso than pulling the string sideways and releasing it. Gotta be careful not to pump it too hard and rattle it off the board, though.

Bingo. I'm an old guy,61. I spent the years, let's see...1959- about 1972 playing totally acoustic. This was good, because it taught me to play the BASS, not the AMP. Some players, especiall ex-slab players, play the amp not the bass! I try to keep amp volume at a very minimum. That knuckle thing that Eric mentions is exactly what I started with...Most pictures you see of Ray Brown reveal that he was also fond of this. Anybody doing this ends up with an odd shaped callous from your second joint down to the tip of your index finger.
Don't limit yourself to this. Work into some of the stuff that T mentions because of one important issue, at least for me, is DYNAMICS. On a ballad, for instance, you should want to use some sensitivity and this takes a different approach.
Some guys just can't wait to kick some ass! How many times are you into a "sensitive" mode on a beautiful ballad and the drummer just can't wait to finish the HEAD so he or she can double up the tempo......ARGHHHH And T, yeah, as above. But through the years, i've ended up using just anout everything including my @#$%**+~~#*!! You know...index and middle with thumb on the side of the FB for sambas and double time. Double and triple stops, thumb. Octaves on the G and A strings, Thumb and middle...ETC. And T, no you don't need high action to get the "click" My action is probably considered middle of the road. I really don't get it in my playing that much...I was just trying to make a point about that angle thing we were talking about.

[T-Bal]

Thanks!

Tom

[Johnny L]

...one important issue, at least for me, is DYNAMICS.

Coming from a country and rock n roll background, I spent a long time listening to and playing music that stayed at one volume - loud. So since I began double bass lessons with my teacher over a year ago, appreciating dynamics and how they are used to give life to a song, a line, or even a single note has been a long, hard journey.

I wouldn't have even considered any other dynamics but ff without hearing someone like my teacher doing them in front of me. Awesome stuff...

[Moondog]

Thanks for all the input on this. While the technique I have been using works extremely well for bass guitar, it does seem to make more sense to use the fingerboard to anchor when playing DB (better leverage). I have been trying it, and even though I have fairly small hands, it's coming along pretty well. I really appreciate the in-depth descriptions of playing technique, these are very helpful since I do not have a teacher at this time.

Moondog

[Mike Goodbar]

[quote]Originally posted by Paul Warburton

Some guys just can't wait to kick some ass! How many times are you into a "sensitive" mode on a beautiful ballad and the drummer just can't wait to finish the HEAD so he or she can double up the tempo......ARGHHHH

Or just when the bossa is really starting to sound sexy, the saxophonist happens to play more than 3 sixteenth notes in a row, the drummer decides that's his cue to turn it into a samba. BLECCHH!!!!




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