Ron Carter/Plugged Nickel Sessions

musicman5string · #1 03-22-2007, 08:41 PM

Master of the fast tempos or what???

Discuss.

Alex Scott · #2 03-22-2007, 08:47 PM

Driving the tempo/meter changes? Talk about a flexible and responsive group.

What great solos from Wayne Shorter, too.

musicman5string · #3 03-22-2007, 09:03 PM

Oh, insanely good group, without a doubt. My only caveat is that they didn't play too many of Wayne's amazing compositions.
Now, on the bass side, Ron's endurance is something to behold. Chops? Jesus, I wish I could play a set like that.
What's frustrating is why his solos during this period (and a little after) are so lame....

TomSauter · #4 03-23-2007, 11:44 AM

Ron sometimes makes some choices that are weird to me, but I certainly wouldn't say his ideas don't go anywhere. I think he's actually a very versatile soloist. He can be kind of hit or miss, but he obviously has a command of the bop language, he plays great blues stuff that doesn't sound cliche, he solos well on free tunes (I love his arco solo on "The Egg" from Empyrean Isles). When I was in college, people used to say that his solo on Red Clay was the worst bass solo of all time, but I went and listened to it not long ago, and even though it sounds a little odd, it's actually pretty logical, and his groove is awesome. Just my 2 cents.

Back to the original topic, I can't believe how calm he seems on all those fast tempos! It's as effortless as if he was playing a ballad.

musicman5string · #5 03-23-2007, 11:53 AM

Topic #1: The solos. Actually, Ron plays a killin solo on "Autumn Leaves" from the "Miles In Europe" CD; arco to boot. And of course he knows the language of blues and bop, it's his choices on some solos that are not for me. On this solo, I really like his choices.
Topic #2: The tempos. Yeah, he does sound relaxed, in control, confident. Amazing really. To me that's way harder than playing a solo. And he did that night after night for years with that band, without a pickup and amp.

Alex Spradling · #6 03-24-2007, 12:24 AM

I just dug out some of my Ron stuff to give it another whirl, some is pretty iffy, but I liked a lot of his soloing more than I remember. I was listening to some of his Golden Striker cuts. There's some really beautiful music on that album. Great solos, very lyrical.

.matthew e wengerd. · #7 03-24-2007, 06:37 AM

Golden Striker is at the top of my rotation and has been for over a year. So complex!

Sam Sherry · #8 03-24-2007, 02:12 PM

Golden Striker's nice. I like Mr. Bow Tie at least as much. Ron's solos are well worth the time.

Don't you hope you're still growing as much when you've been playing that long?

Michael Case · #9 03-25-2007, 10:40 AM

From what I've heard about RC, this comes from a person who studied with him. He is a very good person, but holds his students to a very high standard. His teaching method is what has given him a reputation as not being very nice. From what I've heard though, he sounds like the kind of teacher that would whip you into shape.

As far as the CCNY student, I've heard a story he made a female student cry. But that is just one of the rumors floating around the CCNY jazz program. What I do know is that RC had a major role in the program and it is one of the finest in the NYC (especially when you consider the cost), all of the teachers that worked with him express how nice he was and how high his standards are.

neal davis · #10 03-25-2007, 12:06 PM

who cares if he is "nice" or not nice or whether or not he made hundreds of students cry does this really matter? If you like Rons playing great but if you don't thats ok too, but it doesn't matter how someones personality is or your opinion of them because we are not teenage girls spreading rumors we are supposed to be discussing music, but hey have you guys been following the anna nicole smith news "wow"

Alex Spradling · #11 03-25-2007, 12:20 PM

Ron Carter. Incredible Bassist. Legend.

I never said he wasn't a nice guy, I'm sure he is, I've just heard a lot of iffy stories from a lot of respectable players, so I wanted clarification.. I regret what I said if it offended anyone..

For the record, I think being a nice person is everything. Do you really think being a be-bop king really matters at the end of the day...not a bit.

And I'm really happy to hear Ron is a great guy, that makes him an even better player in my book.

Marcus Johnson · #12 03-25-2007, 12:23 PM

FWIW, I've met him a few times, and he was nothing but a gracious gentleman. Great handshake, too.

OT ... all time favorite RC bassline is "Basin Street Blues" on Seven Steps To Heaven. That's the one that got me going down this road in the first place.

musicman5string · #13 03-25-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

OT ... all time favorite RC bassline is "Basin Street Blues" on Seven Steps To Heaven. That's the one that got me going down this road in the first place.

Yeah, that's a great one.
My favorites are:
1. Dolphin Dance
2. Eighty One (especially the walking)
3. Riot (Herbie's version)
4. Nefertitti
5. E.S.P.
6. Fee Fi Fo Fum
7. Witch Hunt or Speak No Evil
8. Gingerbread Boy (miles version)
9. Seven Steps To Heaven
10. just anything off the mid 60's Miles stuff.....

Those lines combined with my favorite lines by Ray Brown and Paul Chambers make up most of my walking concept.

Marcus Johnson · #14 03-25-2007, 03:17 PM

It's hard to imagine anyone else in that quintet, isn't it? Ron has never been a favorite soloist of mine, but the way he and Tony pushed that band is still a benchmark of great rhythm section playing. Ron's sense of linear motion in his walking lines is really worth examining.

The Plugged Nickel sessions had my jaw on the floor for quite some time.

PS.... actually, some of the nicest RC soloing I've heard is on the live duo CD with Jim Hall. Although the strings are pretty bright sounding (new set, I'd guess), the stuff coming out of that bass is pretty beautiful.

Ben Rolston · #15 03-26-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

And he did that night after night for years with that band, without a pickup and amp.

Are you sure of this? Where did you hear this? I know that in the studio, Ron Carter always uses a mic, but I've read somthing (I think an article in Bass Player) where he spoke (In fairly strong words) about how he will always use an amp live. I realize this recording is before the interview, but it wasn't before amps-was it?

**Jeremy Allen** · #16 03-26-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Rolston

Are you sure of this? Where did you hear this? I know that in the studio, Ron Carter always uses a mic, but I've read somthing (I think an article in Bass Player) where he spoke (In fairly strong words) about how he will always use an amp live. I realize this recording is before the interview, but it wasn't before amps-was it?

MM5 is talking about the years RC spent playing with that Miles quintet, which was most assuredly un-amp'ed. Sure, he takes amplification for granted today, but in the pre-fusion Miles period it was all natural. I've got some incredibly inspiring videos of that quintet (my favorite of all time) performing live, and even when they're on a huge stage they just set up close together and let 'er rip. On most of the concerts, there's a mic for the soloists and one on the piano and one sitting in front of the bass, but this is house as opposed to stage sound, and it's really just capturing the acoustic vibe of the whole group. For all I know, those mics were only there for the cameras and not for a PA set-up (someone who was alive and checking out jazz then--please inform us!).

Do a search for "miles davis quintet" on youtube (or click here) to see some of this stuff. Watching this band play completely recharges my batteries; Ron just looks so relaxed, and each one of the guys plays with such freedom and lack of hang-ups about what's "right" or where the tunes "should" go that, even though this stuff is forty years old, I feel like jazz is fresh and new again.

Bruce Lindfield · #17 03-27-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Yeah, that's a great one.
My favorites are:
1. Dolphin Dance
2. Eighty One (especially the walking)
3. Riot (Herbie's version)
4. Nefertitti
5. E.S.P.
6. Fee Fi Fo Fum
7. Witch Hunt or Speak No Evil
8. Gingerbread Boy (miles version)
9. Seven Steps To Heaven
10. just anything off the mid 60's Miles stuff.....

I know it's a fairly simple line, but I can't believe nobody has mentioned "FootPrints" - so it just sounds so good on "Miles Smiles", when you hear that bass line start from Ron on his own - I love the sound and the rhythmic propulsion he gives to that !

Great groove throughout, whereas the Wayne solo version is a bit sluggish...?

oliebrice · #18 03-27-2007, 04:48 AM

"whereas the Wayne solo version is a bit sluggish...?"
I assume you mean Adam's Apple, rather than the extraordinary recent versions....

Bruce Lindfield · #19 03-27-2007, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliebrice

"whereas the Wayne solo version is a bit sluggish...?"
I assume you mean Adam's Apple, rather than the extraordinary recent versions....

Yes - sorry - the Footprints live and current quartet is very different and has done some great stuff!

I was just trying to emphasis how Tony Williams and Ron Carter really made that groove their own!

musicman5string · #20 03-27-2007, 05:59 AM

Well worth transcribing are Ron's turnaround patterns on "Footprints" ; not only do you get a lesson in polyrythms, but you also learn the "real" changes.