Is this screwy to anyone else? - Page 2

bopeuph · #21 11-15-2007, 11:00 AM

I actually thought about that. I've known the co-principal since junior high. He wouldn't mind taking me on. He's a well known string educator in the county, as well. I may actually give him a call.

Nick

professor_bills · #22 11-15-2007, 11:28 AM

It sounds like grasshopper has learned to walk silently on the rice paper

damonsmith · #23 11-15-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bopeuph

I actually thought about that. I've known the co-principal since junior high. He wouldn't mind taking me on. He's a well known string educator in the county, as well. I may actually give him a call.

Nick

Good plan. A lot of the comments you have made lead me to guess you are taking the technical side a bit too lightly. So I would go with that.

anonymous02282011 · #24 11-16-2007, 07:42 AM

He may be a great teacher and player, but he sounds like a jerk. At least that's the impression I get from reading your post. If you think he's a jerk, move on.

Michael Case · #25 11-16-2007, 08:48 AM

People like that are not good people to learn from. Their personality can seep into yours and turn you into a jerk.

lb76p · #26 11-17-2007, 06:31 PM

I must say this guy seems to have a very low sense of self-esteem. A good teacher should support your efforts and give constructive criticism. This person sounds very negative and and a bit jealous. You do not need to have this kind of aggrevation during the development of your career and playing. If he only shoots you down and does not give the constructive help you need just deal with him as long as you must but move on and put him in the past as soon as you can.

bopeuph · #27 11-17-2007, 09:43 PM

Yeah. I forgot when I started studying with him and his darkness towards me landing the Camelot gig. He just kept telling me I can't handle it and I should give him the gig. Of course, I didn't. Funny thing is, he was telling me I can't handle the gig before he even heard me play. I didn't want him to tell me I can't do it, I just wanted him to know I have a definite goal in the near future I need to be working towards.

Once upon a time I was told I am not good enough to be a euphonium player. I am holding my own in professional auditions now and everyone wants me to play with their group in Florida.

Once upon a time I was told I couldn't do jazz bass and I should just give it up. I now gig 4-6 times a week on a regular basis in jazz.

My teacher tells me I can't do Camelot. Well, that just makes me want to do it more. I was hired for the gig. If I can't handle it, my phone won't ring again, I'm sure. Besides, I bet I'm more qualified, with all the pizzicato needed for a musical. I will come home in MUCH less pain than he will.

Either way, the only person he should be pissed of at is himself for not properly networking and marketing himself. I actively went looking for gigs. And I went looking for gigs for ME, not him. I sure as hell ain't gonna land them and give them away. My euphonium teacher is a colleague of his, and I let him know what I now know. He doesn't envy my situation, and tried to make excuses for why he would, but at the same time, he admits to this guy being wrong.

Nick

Audiophage · #28 11-18-2007, 09:49 AM

That sounds like a lot of ********, you should get a new teacher. Or at least stop paying for lessons from this guy.

bonaventura · #29 11-18-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

Bottom line Nick...

If this situation effects your ability to learn from the guy then switch.

The flip side to this bottom line is -- if his attitude affects his willingness to impart his knowledge to you (because he sees you as a competitor)... [fill in the blank]

I play on the side and work at a company. A former teacher played at a gig at my company and voiced his frustration to me that I was getting gigs at my own company, said I was taking his livelinhood away. I had always wondered about his willingness to give me good advice on my playing, but when I started to feel like I was competitor of his, it made me rethink the lessons and I switched. ...

Going to a week-long jazz workshop next week with Karel Algoed as the bass teacher.

bonaventura · #30 11-18-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

Bottom line Nick...

If this situation effects your ability to learn from the guy then switch.

The flip side to this bottom line is -- if his attitude affects his willingness to impart his knowledge to you (because he sees you as a competitor)... [fill in the blank]

I play on the side and work at a company. A former teacher played at a gig at my company and voiced his frustration to me that I was getting gigs at my own company, said I was taking his livelinhood away. I had always wondered about his willingness to give me good advice on my playing, but when I started to feel like I was competitor of his, it made me rethink the lessons and I switched. ...

damonsmith · #31 11-27-2007, 06:57 PM

After considerring my own attitude's toward my students who play in the same scene as me, I am going to call this guy a bad teacher.
If my students have intonation problems, or any others - those are MY problems. If I hear a criticism of one of my students or see one play and notice bad habits, you can bet that is what we are going after in the next lesson. Students are a reflection on the teacher.

I want my students to go out and play their asses off, in terms of petty, competitive, personal satisfaction the only thing better than playing better than another player is your student playing better than them!

JYD · #32 12-23-2007, 10:13 PM

I have been a TBer now for 4 or 5 years. I rarely read this part of the forum section, and believe I have never responed here.
That said I think I'll respond here.

If your getting gigs and the people continue to call you back then something is working in your favor regardless of what anyone (including your teacher) has to say about your ability.

In most situations (musically) people hire the best qualified (sound/style, reliability, comfort level) people available. That's not true 100% but close.

I have been playing for over 20 years and have learned a lot about people in musical circles. First, it's a small world musically, you would be surprised who knows who you know. A lot of making connectons are made via word of mouth, but if you can play, it usually defeats bad press. Most musicians never SUB a gig they want to keep (especially to someone they see as matching their ability) unless they are stuck ( going to piss off a band leader for subbing) or think they have something better.

I have worked with many different directors and leaders, and some teachers over the years. If your teacher is taking you places technique wise, (your progressing and expanding, and generally getting better) and showing you helpful things, then it might be worth your time to stick with him. The tough directors (that have some kind of compassion) have taken me to the best levels in my performance. Be big enough to express to your teacher that you feel your getting more talk then substance in the lesson.

I always consider one thing in forums like this........ we only hear one side of the story. Judging from what you say it sounds like your winning any possible competition for gigs between you and your teacher (so what have you lost)?
Having said that, as a band leader the one thing that eventually turns me off to anyone in any group (regardles of how well they can or can not play, etc.) is someone who talks too much. You should consider what people might think if this is an ongoing topic of conversation. Show up to the gigs or rehearsals and do your thing and let that be it. The band members/leader should be able to tell you what they want or do not want.
If they call you back you must be doing something right. If they do not call you back then you need to find out where your lacking (if anything).

Your post sounds more like you need some reassurance and confidence then the idea that you might actually have a teacher/student conflict. If everything you say is true and accurate, then just keeping doing your thing and it will all work out.

bopeuph · #33 02-16-2008, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the help guys.

I got the music last week, and I must say, this show is a piece of cake. There's probably about 16-32 bars altogether that are trouble spots, and they can be fixed with about 5-10 minutes practice each phrase; and they have been.

I just wonder why my teacher said I can't handle this gig. A (decent) high school student could handle this gig. And with the amount of pizz. in a musical, I bet my callouses allow me to last much longer than a classical player. I was talking to the bandleader, and he told me he knows who my teacher is, and he doesn't like his playing at all. Funny thing is, while his technique is much better than mine, especially classically (he can't walk a blues to save his life. I heard), I was never really impressed with his playing. I wrote that off to a few reasons:

1. I'm not giving him a real chance, and trying to compare him to the phenomenal jazz bass teachers I have had in the past.

2. I dig going to the symphony, and the Jacksonville Symphony Orchestra is a world class group, and before that, I was at FSU. I have given standards too high for him.

3. When I started as a college student, I had a LOT of ego, whether or not it was showing, it was showing to myself. I have since been suppressing it, because I have seen people with lots of ego and no skill, and no ego and lots of skill. I prefer the latter.

Problem is, I have heard what I have been thinking from other people. And, the local orchestra, while it has lots of great players, isn't that great of an orchestra, and even some better players choose to not play in it because of similar cutthroat b.s. that goes on in there. Bottom line, I have been happier with individual shedding than lessons with him. I might travel to get a few lessons with someone else, but I'm just using my musical ear, and a combination of what I have learned from all my teachers and my technique books to get me through this dry spell of teachers.

The bandleader saw through my "professional confidence" about playing with a bow, and he seems to be sympathetic, but kept telling me this gig is easier than I have been led to believe. He was right. He seems to be confident in my playing, even though he hasn't yet heard me play. I don't know if he got word of my playing from anyone, but I used to play trombone with one of his trumpet players, and then bass with him after I accepted this gig. Maybe he put in a good word for me.

Nick

hdiddy · #34 02-19-2008, 12:27 PM

IMO, if a teacher isn't inspiring you to play better and you don't feel like you're getting your money's worth in a lesson, he's no good. You have better things to do with your time and money.

If he was a good teacher/person, he'd look at your gigs, give you a smile, and call you a motherf****r in a good way. That's why I like my teacher so much, cuz he respects his students too, in his own special way.

bopeuph · #35 02-21-2008, 10:05 AM

Well, gig was here and gone, and there weren't many problems. The criticism I was getting from the full timers was stylistic stuff, not any bitching to me about my sound or anything (but they did have a sound guy come help me dial my amp a little better, and I learned something). I would think when they say things like "I'd like you to play this shorter, this pizz, etc., then they respect my technique and abilities enough to not have to address them, even if I make a mistake at the rehearsal. Business cards were traded all around, and I had a lot of fun. It was my first gig in a pit orchestra, AND it was my first gig to use a bow. Not bad!

Nick