Soloing over changes at first sight

[Aerdna]

Hello,

My name is Andrea and I'm from Italy. This is the first time I write on this forum and I have a questions for the more advanced double bass players regarding jazz improvisation. I'm wondering how you go about improvising on a tune you're just reading/performing for the first time, weather it's a standard or a more modern composition. I know how to play scales and arpeggios in different positions and I have a fairly decent understanding of jazz harmony. I can improvise on a tune I already know, nothing too flashy but I'm usually able to play something meaningful. The thing is that if I'm performing a tune for the first time I struggle big time, unless it's a pretty simple one and then I mostly play by ear. What can I do to develop that skill? How do I work on it?

Thanks,
Andrea

[Kam]

A few things I can recommend that helped me quite a bit:

Practice playing licks that go well over major and minor ii V I progressions in all keys. Example: Memorize a lick in C Major and transpose by taking it around the circle of 5ths until you feel comfortable. Once you have that, try to work through random ii V progressions like the ones found in Aebersold books.

The best way to learn is by just doing it. Put yourself in situations where you are forced to solo over foreign changes. Focus on keeping your place in the form and resolving where appropriate and you'll get through. The more you play, the more you'll recognize universal patterns.

[clink]

Andrea,
Welcome to our little forum here.
First of all, I'm a bit new at this also, but this is what I try to do.
If I have a fake book in front of me (reading treble clef) or if it is a fairly simple melody, I will try to play it, with some embelishment. If I get off a bit, I just try to recover by playing something rhythmically or harmonically that hopefully fits.
Being able to read treble clef is a skill that I suspect a lot of bass players just don't do very well. I'm not terribly good at it, but am working on it.

My teacher really stresses the importance of learning the melodies to tunes. That is a good starting point for improvisation.

As far as developing the skill? I'm working on it right along with you. I think we just have to go play!

[hdiddy]

I think there's only one way to really get the hang of this: do it alot. The way I've been acquiring this skill is to put myself in situations where I don't know the tune at all. It's humbling at first but after a while it doesn't seem so daunting (unless the tune is really hard to hear the melody/progressions).

I do this by playing at jazz jams armed with the real book and playing whatever the horn player calls or by filling in for bassists who couldn't make their jazz ensemble classes. I've had my share of trainwrecks where I was the sole cause. But these days I think I can pull it off without people noticing so much.

There are a few things you need to ask before even starting the song:
* What's the pattern of the song? AABA? AAB? ABAB? Rhythm changes? Blues?
* How many bars is the song? and each pattern?
* What is the time of the song? Cut time (2/4)? 4/4? 3/4? 6/8? If you play something in 3 or 6/8, always count off the first several beats under your own breath. This really helps if you have been playing in 4/4 and need to get into the groove of 3/4.
* What chords does the bridge consist of? Is it a chromatic progression? Rhythm changes bridge?
* What key does each part resolve to?
* What are the turnarounds?
* Where are the iiV progressions? What keys are they resolving to?
* Where does the ending tag of the song start and what might it be?

Make it a habit to go though this list or a similar list of questions before you venture out on a new tune.

I think the biggest thing about doing this is that you should never lose the rhythm. If you lose a chord progression or two, it's easy to find your way back or BS until you hook up with the song structure, but if you lose "one", you're in a whole lotta trouble. For me, knowing how a part of the song resolves helps save my ass. If I mess up in the beginning or middle, I might be able to BS my way out of it, but if I mess up the end, everybody knows I f'd up.

EDIT: One more big tip - get a thick skin. You're going to screw up all over the place. You should always remain humble enough to eat your own foot, but you can't be so sensitive that it makes you unwilling to keep getting back on the horse. You'll fall off the horse alot in the beginning, but given that you practice alot and keep working on it, you'll stay on alot longer.

[stefaniw80401]

Originally Posted by clink

My teacher really stresses the importance of learning the melodies to tunes. That is a good starting point for improvisation.

Clink's advice is spot on man! I got this same advice when I told the veteran sax man in my trio I was having difficulty soloing. His sage advice to me was to "learn" the melody. Aside from simply reading it from the fake book, your ears may already "know" the melody. What I do a few bars before my solo is to try to find the first couple of notes of the melody while playing my bass lines. Then when it's time for me to jump in with a solo, I start with those first few notes. I too use the "embellishment" strategy, but my problem is that I run out of things to "say" in my soloing. And I hate reverting to riffs, because then all your solos end upu sounding simimlar.

Take Brian Bromberg -- awesome chops -- but you know it's him playing when nearly on every solo he pulls out his slapping double-stops and those lighting fast Eddie VanHalen licks on the G string. God knows I love his tone and style, but those two "riffs" of his get old after a while.

- Mark

[hdiddy]

Originally Posted by COLONELCLINK

Being able to read treble clef is a skill that I suspect a lot of bass players just don't do very well. I'm not terribly good at it, but am working on it.

I can read Treble clef pretty well but then again I played piano for 15 years as a kid. Still, I think alotta bass players can read treble plenty good, at least jazz players. I'm learning Tenor clef for thumb position now and it's not that hard either. Intonation is another story.

My teacher really stresses the importance of learning the melodies to tunes. That is a good starting point for improvisation.

Melodies are nice, but it doesn't help you as a bassist when someone calls Oleo at 240 bpm if you have never heard the head and don't know your Rhythm changes. By the time you read the first note you're probably late already. While licks might sound canned, it sure as hell will save your hide in that situation. If I was playing a ballad, I might be more inclined to read as time is a little bit more of a luxury.

[TroyK]

...if you have never heard the head and don't know your Rhythm changes...

Learn and practice Rhythm Changes and major and minor blues in lots of keys. There's no reason to make that hard on yourself. Those are going to come up over and over and you can save yourself a lot of heart ache by learning those forms.

Your original question, I took to mean more standards that may have somewhat unique changes. I'm no expert and there are better people here to advise you, but my methods are:

* Know as many tunes as I can, so that I don't have to face this very often.
* Listen to things I don't know, so that at least I have an aural familiarity with the melodies and forms.
* If I'm caught blind on a tune, then I analyze it quickly. Is it true to a key signature or two? Can I pick a scale to blow modally over, even if I have to switch for the bridge or something?
* Start on whatever note the melody starts on. Can I retain the feel of the melody in my head after hearing others play it? Can I sing back at least the rhythms of it while I play harmonically relevant notes?
* Can I play a walking solo, maybe mixing in half notes, 8th notes and triplets depending on the tempo and how hard the changes are?
* I think arpeggiating the changes can sound pretty academic, but if I have to, I try to start on something other than the root and go up to 9ths, 10ths, #11s if appropriate, etc.
* And finally, can I wave off the bass solo?

On the way home, I think to myself "how likely is it that that song is going to come up again?" If I think it is, then I try to get familiar with it through a recording, a quality chart or whatever I can find. An odd moment of clarity that I had this year was "practice soloing on tunes that I know I'm going to have to solo on". Seems like I would have known this, but somehow, I didn't quite get it. I don't work out solos ahead of time, but I blow over something at home for 10-20 minutes and some of those ideas make it through to my next gig.

Hope that helps. Good luck to you.

Troy

[clink]

Originally Posted by phdiddy

but it doesn't help you as a bassist when someone calls Oleo at 240 bpm ......

This would be one of many *& #&(% moments in my playing experience. There is no way to be prepared for any possible situation other than doing it. We can run Giant Steps, Oleo or a zillion other tunes at home, but there is only so much time to prepare. It's a long race and there is always another day.

p.s. It's colonel Klink. I'm more like Schultz. Give me a candy bar and you can take me anywhere.

[Aerdna]

Thank you all for your great advice! It seems like the bottom line is to just do it a lot. I'm going to make it part of my practice routine, open the Real Book, turn on the metronome and go for it. I'll try not to be too sensitive I wish I could read treble clef, that would help a lot...

Thanks,
Andrea

[hdiddy]

One thing I did notice: it is one thing to try to do at home alone. It is a completely different thing to put yourself out on a limb and do it in front of others. You learn much much much faster with others although you can't hide from the trainwrecks.

I would suggest that you find a group of people who you can play with and do it with them. It helped me tremendously. But at home, I would just work on your repetoire. Don't worry about this skill just yet. Building a repetoire will help you tackle playing things the first time out alot better, and most of the time people won't ask you to do it anyway. It's a better use of your time I think.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Playing over changes is all about hearing the changes. If you have 20 seconds or so before the downbeat, try to mentally imagine or hear what the changes are likely to sound like. I've said it before, but the best eacher I ever had taught me that sightreading isn't about typing out the right notes and rhythm, but rather about playing by ear through your eyes: See-->Sing(internally or otherwise)-->Hear-->Play. This is the best musical advice I've ever been given in my life, and I'll spend the rest of my days trying to get better at it.

If you aren't very good at this yet, or if you don't have time before the downbeat to get the lay of the aural landscape, then internalize the sound of the changes while you are accompanying everyone else. It may be that after 3, 4, or 5 times through the form accompanying you can absorb the changes enough to play without looking. I find that the sooner I can get my eyes off the page and into the sound of the tune, the sooner I stop typing and start making music.