spiro arco???

[anonymous8547j7d7b]

Any tips for ease of bowing with spiro reds? Choice of rosin?
After 10 yrs of self-study (my only formal instruction was a year or so in high school) i am about to invest in a bow and commence study with an orchestral bod. Unfortunately, I have one bass & no intention of compromising my jazz set-up if at all possible

[Marcus Johnson]

A set of well-broken in Spiros can work great for arco. I use Carlsson rosin, which sounds more transparent to my ears than some others. I like the sound best when used sparingly. The main problem I have with bowing spiros is when I'm using a pickup. It's hard to avoid a scratchy sound with some pickups combined with Spiros. I usually use mic only, or a very small amount of pickup blended with the mic.

The Spiros are very expressive arco strings once you get the hang of them.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

A set of well-broken in Spiros can work great for arco. I use Carlsson rosin, which sounds more transparent to my ears than some others. I like the sound best when used sparingly. The main problem I have with bowing spiros is when I'm using a pickup. It's hard to avoid a scratchy sound with some pickups combined with Spiros. I usually use mic only, or a very small amount of pickup blended with the mic.

The Spiros are very expressive arco strings once you get the hang of them.

+1 on everything he said. Also I find the Realist is a better pu than most for arco amplification.

[Bethelbass1]

I use Spiros for my bass on which I play both jazz and classical. They work well for arco that is more strident, as with the Koussevitsky Concerto which I am playing currently. It also helps you sound louder which is another plus for repertoire like the Koussevitsky. However, my bass is not extremely resonant so they worked well in balance with the softer tone of my bass. A bass with a "wetter" sound would probably clash with spiros bowed.

Another plus is, if you can play with a decent tone on spiros, you can easily play beautifully of arco strings.
My two cents

[anonymous8547j7d7b]

Thanks guys. I suppose there was always gonna be an advantage to (re)learning arco techniques on spiros - I recall playing a school plywood heap strung with who-knows-what & then playing one of my old teacher's basses. Thankfully I don't intend to play arco on gigs (jazz arco solos do nothing for me) so the obvious major pitfall of amped arco spiros is negated. The realist, as a dark pickup, has tempted me for a while - but I just love the schertler stat-b. Some rooms & loud gigs do tend to negate its qualities. However, I suspect that is more the financially-restricted use of a polytone minibrute (they don't like to be above 3.5 or 4 in volume). Hang on! This is an arco thread! Doh!

[Jake]

I've just a listened to a recording of somebody playing arco on Spiros getting a nice, dynamic arco sound. I am thinking about trying Weich's (or maybe even solos) on a carved bass that I would like to use for playing both classical and jazz. I think the bright, kinda impolite arco tone of the Spiros would be great for playing classical solo pieces and of course the pizz sound is strong and clear for jazz. The only thing I'm concerned about is how they'd do down low for orchestral stuff. I have been using the darkest Pirastro arco strings for a long time, so I know there would have to be some adjustments.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Jake

. The only thing I'm concerned about is how they'd do down low for orchestral stuff.

That's a valid concern. They may never be the nice, big, dark sound that you really want in a section. But they can hold their own if you can be patient and leave them on the bass for awhile. They get louder and fuller over time, in my experience. One thing I've noticed with them is that they are bigger sounding from the listener's standpoint than they are from mine, at least on my bass.

Everything is a compromise, but I'd certainly try to stick with Spiros for awhile, if they're working on your bass for pizz playing.

PS.... I've actually found the Weichs to be a little bit fuller sounding than the reds on my bass. I use the Orch on the E string only.

[rprowse]

I know you're not really concerned about the arco amplified sound, but...
My brother showed me this years ago...
I got a foot pedal graphic equaliser and set it like a V, with the middles taked out. After some fooling around, I got my bowed amplified Weichs to sound very close to my unamplified sound. I still use an Underwood pickup. With the flick of the footswitch I'm back to my pizz settings.
Regarding Orchestral playing, I heard from a good source that the (just retired) principal bassist in our National Symphony (NZSO) uses Weichs with the orchestra. Unfortunately, I can't be certain of this. I will, however, ask the guy who has a shop where most symphony players go.

[Jason Sypher]

I agree with the folks here. They are absolutely fine if your technique is together. In fact, you might even like them. They have a workable midrange that can be used to excellent effect. If a person is just starting out with the bow it might be best to go with a pure arco string just to make it easier on you and your spouse (and cat). I am G-D gut with A-E Spiro user these days and enjoy the full range of tones available. Recently I tried a New Standard with a shiny set of brand new spiros on it and still found a lot of usable sounds with the bow, even as bright as they were. I think it would be helpful if your action was relatively low if you plan on a lot of thumb position stuff. I use Carlsons as well but very sparingly (I think I apply a few swipes a week at the most).

[bmanbill]

I have a carved Czech bass set up with weichs that I use for theatre and gigs where I can't use an amp. The strings project well and have plenty of low end without the pingy, twangy quality of the regular spiros. Arco they work well though are much less well-behaved than, say, Flexocors or Eudoxas. But those strings sound like like zero for pizz playing after a couple of weeks of use. Bottom line for me is that the weichs are a pretty good all around string for jazz and quasi-legit work. I like the way they sound amplified as well. I use a Realist on this bass (still love my Underwood on my "good" bass) and the instrument sounds woody with just enough focus through my Woods and a Bag End 15.

Hope this helps.

[robgrow]

On one of my basses I have Spirocore weich E and A strings and Belcanto D and G strings. After using this combination for a while, I really like it, and arco is very nice on this bass, yet the jazz pizz sound is still happening. This seems to be a good compromise for me so far.

[Marcus Johnson]

That's an interesting combination, I was wondering about that matchup myself. So how would you describe the pizz on the Belcanto D&G?

I was actually thinking maybe Mittels bottom, BC top.

[simandlhandle]

The red to reds work fine on some basses , and not on others.
People seem to be divided on whether they can be bowed but I just think it depends on the bass. My cheapest and newest bass, a Shen sb150 works great with them, amazingly well. Other basses I have just plain don't like them, too scratchey and just won't hold the bow, but these basses sound great with other strings.
George Mraz uses them,my favourite jazz bower, and sounds fantastic. Some top classical bass soloists use them, as they are a loud string, and I have heard of section players using them on the bottom E to gain more volume, so they must "bow" . Its whether they bow on your bass?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by robmymother

On one of my basses I have Spirocore weich E and A strings and Belcanto D and G strings. After using this combination for a while, I really like it, and arco is very nice on this bass, yet the jazz pizz sound is still happening. This seems to be a good compromise for me so far.

Do you like that E string? I can see this combo working very well. Next to my gut D and G the BC was my favorite.

Originally Posted by MacdaddyJ

That's an interesting combination, I was wondering about that matchup myself. So how would you describe the pizz on the Belcanto D&G?

I was actually thinking maybe Mittels bottom, BC top.

Yea. Or maybe Mittle E and Weich A, or Mittle A and Stark E .

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Yea. Or maybe Mittle E and Weich A, or Mittle A and Stark E .

I'm afraid if I try a Stark E, it will ruin me for anything else.

Oh wait, that would be a good thing.

I actually thought I might try my current setup one gauge heavier; Stark E, Mittel everything else. But the BCs on top might be pretty cool.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I'm afraid if I try a Stark E, it will ruin me for anything else.

Oh wait, that would be a good thing.

I actually thought I might try my current setup one gauge heavier; Stark E, Mittel everything else. But the BCs on top might be pretty cool.

Its a formidable string. I couldn't use the whole Stark set for very long. It destroyed my hands and choked the bass.

The Stark E is my favorite E string. The open string note is brutally good. The G through B can get pretty buzzy though and anything above that is overtone city. Takes a huge right hand pull to get it moving. The distance between a full note and a buzz saw is a fraction but when I find that spot lookout!

Stark E bows really well for a spirocore after its broken in. Bright but big. Not really a section blender.

I do like it paired with the Mittle A rather than the Stark A. The Stark A string is a pig. The Mittle has a nice spot between the buzz and the poof.

The Stark E is under enough tension to change the scoop in the neck. It pulls the neck enough extra to make a Mittel A string sound really clean vs. when it's paired with a Mittel E, then its to buzzy.

The Weich E is pathetic. Buzzy with no guts. Good for use as a pull cord on a light switch in the closet though. Hangs down just the right spot for a short guy.

[robgrow]

The Spiro weich and Belcanto combo works pretty well. I was looking for strings that were more suited for arco on my bass, but still had decent jazz pizz response. I liked the Belcantos for arco right away, but it took me a little while to get used to them for pizz. Now that I've used to them a while, I'm happy with the Belcantos overall. They've kind of grown on me.

The Spiro weichs and the Belcantos matchup fairly well as far as volume, although I think the Spiros are a little stronger. On this particular bass, which is a 7/8 flatback, the weichs work very well and the E string is very powerful. The lighter E and A strings also make sense to me, since the Belcanto D and G are very skinny (at least to me they are). On my other bass, which is a 3/4 hybrid with a slightly shorter scale, I'm using a Spiro stark E, and it seems just right on that bass. Weichs would be too light on it I think.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

The Weich E is pathetic. .

I absolutely agree. I can't believe I ever used that string now, after having the Mittel E in its place.

Thank you, Arnold Schnitzer!

PS.... this is the case on the basses I've owned.... I do understand that other folks may have had an entirely different experience. I just love being able to really lay into that Mittel E and get some nice returns.

[robgrow]

I had always used Spiro mittles, and didn't think I'd like the weich E. However on this particular bass the weich E vibrates more freely, whereas it was always just a little choked with a Spiro mittle E. Anyway the weich E doesn't sound at all wimpy on this bass. It's very loud and powerful. The weich E bows rather nicely too.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

The Weich E is pathetic. Buzzy with no guts. Good for use as a pull cord on a light switch in the closet though. Hangs down just the right spot for a short guy.

- I drop a couple unamplified Low Es before de-tuning in this little clip. I am not so sure I'd call the sound pathetic. I have used Weichs for years.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIhj0zSRbS0