Thumb position muting

barend · #1 08-17-2009, 02:15 PM

When you play in the thumb position and you play a passage like G-F (the G with your thumb and the F with the 3rd finger on the D string) or for example A-G-F-G in the same position.
How do you prevent the note G ringing over the F?
When you play this in the first position your left hand automatically mutes the G string but in the thumb position this is not the case.

Do you lift up the thumb a little bit after you have played the note G or is there another way of doing this?

Square Bear · #2 08-17-2009, 09:27 PM

play the g stopped if it's bothering you.

barend · #3 08-18-2009, 02:39 AM

what do mean by stopped? stopping it with the right hand? but that is not possible when you play decending passages going to a lower string.
When you play G-F or G-Fis the G ringing over the other tone can be really annoying and dissonant.
I try to prevent that by lifting up the thumb a little bit. But maybe there is an easier way.

JavierBass · #4 08-18-2009, 11:26 AM

By stopped he means by your thumb instead of playing it as a harmonic.

barend · #5 08-18-2009, 12:45 PM

ok, but I didn't mean playing a harmonic. I am talking about the 'fretted' note G (so stopped) with the thumb.

drurb · #6 08-18-2009, 01:30 PM

Seems to me that the "ringing" would be no different than that produced when playing any two notes on different strings. That is, if you truly are playing the G stopped, then your situation is not unique to thumb position (TP).

barend · #7 08-18-2009, 01:45 PM

It is different in thumb position, because in TP you can not the mute the higher string with your left hand when you go to a lower string. In any other position you can do that and you have to do it if you don't want to hear two notes ringing over each other.

My question is how to prevent that in TP when going from a stopped note with the thumb to a lower string.

I thought the question was fairly easy and clear.

And as I said before I am not talking about the harmonic G but the stopped G.

drurb · #8 08-18-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barend

It is different in thumb position, because in TP you can not the mute the higher string with your left hand when you go to a lower string.

Really?

Tomasito · #9 08-18-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barend

lift up the thumb a little bit after you have played the note G

This! It's been my experience that this is less trivial on basses with particularly high 'actions', or where the strings are widely spaced at the bridge.

barend · #10 08-19-2009, 01:49 AM

ok, thanks. Then I was doing it right. I thought there might be an easier way.

You can be right about the higher action. It can be a little bit easier in that case. But still with a high action you push the string down with your thumb and therefore it is very hard to mute the higher string with the left hand fingers.

drurb · #11 08-19-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barend

ok, thanks. Then I was doing it right. I thought there might be an easier way.

You can be right about the higher action. It can be a little bit easier in that case. But still with a high action you push the string down with your thumb and therefore it is very hard to mute the higher string with the left hand fingers.

If I understood correctly, by saying it is "less trivial" with greater string heights, he's saying it is more difficult. That makes sense to me as it's not as easy to modulate the pressure. I suppose that, if you must, you can use a free finger on your left hand to mute the string (e.g., if you're hitting that F on the D with your 2nd finger). Truth be told, I was never bothered by any such ringing but I understand why you might be.

barend · #12 08-20-2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

I suppose that, if you must, you can use a free finger on your left hand to mute the string (e.g., if you're hitting that F on the D with your 2nd finger). Truth be told, I was never bothered by any such ringing but I understand why you might be.

It is very hard to mute with your left hand with the thumb on the G (or any other note). Especially with the 1st and 2nd fingers. You have to place your fingers in a very oblique way to be able to mute the higher string with the next playing finger (like in the lower positions). That doesn't make it easier.

This note ringing can be quit annoying and disturbing the melodic line especially when you playing mote dissonant intervals (like G-Fis for example). Also when I listen to players who play a lot in the thumb position (like Eddie Gomez or so) I don't hear the tones ringing so they must damp in some way.

It seems to me that lifting up the thumb a little might be the best solution (so far).

Tomasito · #13 08-20-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

If I understood correctly, by saying it is "less trivial" with greater string heights, he's saying it is more difficult. That makes sense to me as it's not as easy to modulate the pressure.

Yup!

Square Bear · #14 08-20-2009, 06:59 AM

just picked up my bass to see if i could recreate what you're talking about. you're right, the g rings over. i guess the thing that surprises me is that it's always happened, i've just never been bothered by it. if you are playing with an aggressive attack and the note-front of the f is really present, i'm not so sure that it does disturb the melodic line. i guess i just try to embrace the natural resonance of the instrument. depends on what the line is i suppose and where you are going and the kind of sound you want to produce. also, if you're going for a sound like eddie gomez, he uses very low action and would probably play all the notes of the line stopped, especially in a fast passage... he's a truly great player, but not at all the sound concept that i go for. it's a personal thing though.

of course, the g may be especially present on you bass, and you may be playing with an amp that is sustaining the g in such a way that it would get annoying, who knows. it's hard to say without seeing/hearing it in context on your instrument.

barend · #15 08-20-2009, 09:35 AM

Hi Square Bear,

as I said I also play all notes stopped. I never play the harmonic G when I play a melodic line. I only use harmonics for sound 'effects'.

Lately I have been listening a lot to Eddie Gomez and I really like his playing. So therefore I also practise the thumb position a lot.

drurb · #16 08-20-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barend

It is very hard to mute with your left hand with the thumb on the G (or any other note). Especially with the 1st and 2nd fingers. You have to place your fingers in a very oblique way to be able to mute the higher string with the next playing finger (like in the lower positions). That doesn't make it easier.

This note ringing can be quit annoying and disturbing the melodic line especially when you playing mote dissonant intervals (like G-Fis for example). Also when I listen to players who play a lot in the thumb position (like Eddie Gomez or so) I don't hear the tones ringing so they must damp in some way.

It seems to me that lifting up the thumb a little might be the best solution (so far).

I think you're right.

Phil Rowan · #17 08-20-2009, 10:30 AM

have you tried using your thumb on the A (on the G string), 2nd finger on the G (on D string) and 1st finger on the F (also on D)? just a thought.

drurb · #18 08-20-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

have you tried using your thumb on the A (on the G string), 2nd finger on the G (on D string) and 1st finger on the F (also on D)? just a thought.

Seems like a fine idea! I think, for those of us who are Simandl babies, that would be 3rd finger on the G (F, F#, G; 1, 2, 3-- yes?), but either way, as Phil knows what he's talkin' about.

barend · #19 08-20-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

have you tried using your thumb on the A (on the G string), 2nd finger on the G (on D string) and 1st finger on the F (also on D)? just a thought.

It doesn't reallly matter on which tone the thumb is.
If you put your thumb on the A you will have the same problem when you want to play A-Gis (with the Gis on the D-string).
You have to lift up the thumb otherwise the A (in this case)will ring over the Gis resulting in the minor second harmony.

drurb · #20 08-20-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barend

It doesn't reallly matter on which tone the thumb is.
If you put your thumb on the A you will have the same problem when you want to play A-Gis (with the Gis on the D-string).
You have to lift up the thumb otherwise the A (in this case)will ring over the Gis resulting in the minor second harmony.

Darn! You just had to have that A in there!