Thumb pressure on back of neck

[McBass]

Originally Posted by Johnny L

This doesn't have anything to do with an angled endpin. It has to do with how you have the bass positioned against your body, the length of your arms and what the bass will allow you to do in relation to its size and shape.

Rabbath was kicking ass with a straight endpin before angled endpins came in on the scene. Angled endpins just make things easier for folks who stand that way.

I have to disagree. The angled endpin helps balance the bass so you no longer have to cradle it in your armpit. It also brings the end of the fingerboard closer to you while putting the scroll behind your head. This angle alows you to reach the full range of the finger board without bending at the waist or hunching over at the shoulders. You no longer have to hold on to the neck with your left hand. When Rabbath played with a straight endpin, he essentially held the bass at the same angle as he does now. This allows better access to the upper register but creates an extreme amount of stress on the left hand thumb. Paul Ellison and Rabbath started to experiment with a bent endpin to release the stress on the left hand from holding up the bass. Is it your contention that bent endpins only work for a few people who happen to stand a certain way? As far as I know, the only way to stand that makes sense for the bent endpin is to stand at the balance point where the bass meets your body. If you're not getting that easy balance or the increased access to the upper register, why bother bending your endpin?
That's why Rabbath and Ellison and so many others switched and haven't switched back for about 17 years.

[Johnny L]

My contention is simply this: bent endpins are not mandatory accessories for standing in open position and bringing the left arm over the shoulder of the bass rather than around it. They are designed to displace some of the weight of the bass off of the left hand thumb and bring to open position an important advantage closed position has. Any other claims regarding bent endpins are misplaced in my humble opinion.

If bent endpins were the reason for Rabbath and Ellison's ability to reach notes comfortably, say, near the bridge, then what purpose does this Quenoil business and cutting bass shoulders down serve?

And I am sorry, I have never seen Paul Ellison fear standing in open position while using a bass with a straight endpin.

[anonymous0726]

In broad terms, Johnny, the bent endpin makes the shoulders of your bass smaller, your arms longer and your bass weigh about the same as a ziploc bag in your hands.

If you're playing a skinny, slope-shouldered little German bass and you're 6' tall and thin, then a bent endpin might not seem a necessity. If you're a chubby little German dude with a potbelly and play a deep-ribbed 7/8 Italian with round, wide shoulders (like me), then a bent endpin is a Godsend.

I am not currently playing a bent endpin -- current liquid assets being my only concern -- but I've toyed with bending an extra peg that I have (didn't get it quite right) and believe me when I tell you that Santa will see a new pin mentioned on my X-Mas list.

'Whatever works' is the answer. Just make sure that dogma doesn't get in the way of an opened door for you.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

'Whatever works' is the answer. Just make sure that dogma doesn't get in the way of an opened door for you.

Right. Please forgive any hard language on my part.

[anonymous0726]

[McBass]

Originally Posted by Johnny L

My contention is simply this: bent endpins are not mandatory accessories for standing in open position and bringing the left arm over the shoulder of the bass rather than around it. They are designed to displace some of the weight of the bass off of the left hand thumb and bring to open position an important advantage closed position has. Any other claims regarding bent endpins are misplaced in my humble opinion.

If bent endpins were the reason for Rabbath and Ellison's ability to reach notes comfortably, say, near the bridge, then what purpose does this Quenoil business and cutting bass shoulders down serve?

And I am sorry, I have never seen Paul Ellison fear standing in open position while using a bass with a straight endpin.

Rabbath has owned his Quenoil, and Paul Ellison has owned his Grunert/Quenoil copy since before they conceived of the bent endpin. In fact, it was the extra weight of the tuners on Ellison's copy that inspired a solution to the problem of left hand weight. The extreme sloping shoulders just make it that much easier.

Originally Posted by Johnny L

And I am sorry, I have never seen Paul Ellison fear standing in open position while using a bass with a straight endpin.

I don't fear flying coach. No matter how uncomfortable it is it gets me where I'm going. But, if someone were to offer me a first class upgrade I would accept it every time. It's just more comfortable with less hassle.

With a straight endpin, when play extremely high, you have to perform some act that keeps the treble side of the bass from falling away from you. You might let the neck fall against your shoulder as you bend over, or you might put the neck heel in your arm pit, whatever. With my bent endpin, the posture I use to play my highest g on the g string is the same posture I use to play my lowest f on the e string. Same position of the spine, no supporting the neck with my shoulder. I play a large french bass with huge shoulders with no problem. The angle of the endpin counter balances the bass.

Originally Posted by Johnny L

Any other claims regarding bent endpins are misplaced in my humble opinion.

I'm not making any claims, simply telling you how it works. Have you lived with a bent endpin on your bass for a while? If have you may want to revisit it. You won't regret it.

[McBass]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

In broad terms, Johnny, the bent endpin makes the shoulders of your bass smaller, your arms longer and your bass weigh about the same as a ziploc bag in your hands.

If you're playing a skinny, slope-shouldered little German bass and you're 6' tall and thin, then a bent endpin might not seem a necessity. If you're a chubby little German dude with a potbelly and play a deep-ribbed 7/8 Italian with round, wide shoulders (like me), then a bent endpin is a Godsend.

Ray's absolutely right. I didn't know how much I was missing until I tried bending my own endpin.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by McBass

With a straight endpin, when play extremely high, you have to perform some act that keeps the treble side of the bass from falling away from you... With my bent endpin, the posture I use to play my highest g on the g string is the same posture I use to play my lowest f on the e string...no supporting the neck with my shoulder... The angle of the endpin counter balances the bass.

Thanks McBass. Yes, I have been using a bent endpin for about two months now. Well, mine's not actually bent. I cut it and welded it back at a 45 degree angle rather than bending it. I don't plan on going back to a straight endpin unless I'm playing someone else's bass and that's what they've got.

The neck of the bass rests on my shoulder when I'm playing in thumb position, and in closed position I'm covering the heel with my armpit in thumb position. I'm not using the endpin to balance the bass in thumb position as you are, and my bass will still fall back rather than fall forward if I let it go - just more slowly. That's how I intend the bent endpin to work for me. If you can do what you describe with your bass and it's not a problem for you, that's great.

[Mike Crumpton]

I'd love to see pics of McB's endpin - how long is this McB? I'm assuming the 45 deg bend is as close to the bass as possible and then the shaft extends under the bass so if the bass was held vertically, it would protrude beyond the vertical line of the back by a number of inches???

I once saw a standing player with one of these and the pin was truly enormous, the basss being played from standing at much the angle that Tortellier plays a cello sitting.