Two basses, one band

nathanmcnathan · #1 03-23-2008, 03:59 PM

Hey everybody,
A few friends and I are going to be starting our own avant garde/free jazz/modern group. So far, it's me on bass (doubling on clarinet) another bassist (doubling on trombone) and a guitarist, and we want to get a fourth person, like a horn or something. I'm not really worried about having two bassists - the other bassist can do walking almost as well as me, and play basic lines, while I can do more melodic lines, and of course one of us can always play pizz while one plays arco. I'm just wondering - does anybody here have any experience working with a band with two bassists? I've heard it on a bunch of records, and I love the sound of it - especially Coltrane's.
Thanks!

hdiddy · #2 03-24-2008, 01:51 PM

Did you check out Ron Carter's "Saguaro"? It's also got Buster Williams on it.

oliebrice · #3 03-25-2008, 05:10 AM

Theres a beautiful Ron Horton album called 'everything in a dream' I reccomend checking out. Its got John Hebert and Masa Kamaguchi on bass.
I've played in double bass duos, but never played in a 2 bass band.

milomo · #4 03-25-2008, 10:01 AM

This Mingus Dynasty record has Mike Richmond and Aladar Pege on it. There is some interesting interplay between the two of them in a couple of places. This is a video from the same concert.

Ed Fuqua · #5 03-25-2008, 12:04 PM

I've only got a couple of experiences working free bag stuff with another bassist, one was pretty "composed" - that is we had text (and a talk through) outlining direction, some suggestion as to technique (I "prepared" my bass by sticking a sheet of paper in between the strings and the fingerboard, there was also some arco playing on the afterlength), that kinda thing. But the whole idea of the leader (it was two basses and a didgeridoo) was to balance the approach of the two basses. Registers, arco/pizz, what he was doing on didg, all of that was to achieve a certain sonic end.
There's a great story in the Ornette book; Jimmy Garrison is playing with Ornette and trying a bunch of different stuff but he's not sure he's making it. So he pulls Ornette aside and says " I just want to make sure I'm headed in the right direction, how do you want me to approach playing your music?" So Ornette thinks for a minute (stretching into a pretty LONG silence) and then finally says " Well James..... I want you to......listen.............And play....of course."
On a related note (but in a more straight ahead context) I did a casual with me a guitarist (great player, Roni BenHur) and a piano player. The piano player hadn't played with a guitarist before and said something to the effect of "how do we stay out of each other's way?" And Roni said, "you know the first gig I had with a pianist, I asked a very similar question. And he told me - as long as we LISTEN to each other, nobody will get in anyone's way."

damonsmith · #6 03-26-2008, 05:16 AM

For high energy free jazz I really prefer two basses. The Weasel Walter quartet is a working group with Randall Hunt and myself on basses. It makes it easier to be creative and keep the energy up.
I also like it a lot for improvised music.
It is great that bass players can work together in improvised music. Sometimes when I am visiting somewhere the musician I find the most interesting is a bass player so we can play together.
On Easter Sunday I had a real landmark concert in Brussels with the fantastic bassist Peter Jacquemyn and the great pianist Fred Van Hove.
They happened to be two musicians I really wanted to play with so I suggested that trio.
I have recordings out with two bass groups with Reuben Radding, Lisle Ellis, Peter Kowald and Joelle Leandre as well as the Weasel walter project I mentioned above.
There is huge amount of possibilities with two basses, one we should not forget is working together as a section, it does not always have to be about contrast.
A great place to start listening is Bill Dixon's music.
"Intents and Purposes, "Thoughts", "November 1981", "Vade Mecum" I & II and "Berlin Abozzi" have some of the best examples of the 2 and 3 bass format.

Ed Fuqua · #7 03-26-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

one we should not forget is working together as a section, it does not always have to be about contrast.

EXCELLENT point.

Mark Perna · #8 03-26-2008, 10:02 AM

I've not played in a two bass band but the classic two bass band that no one mentioned yet was the Ornette Coleman double quartet on the album Free Jazz with Scott Lafaro and Charlie Haden holding the bass chairs down. I would have liked to have been at that session.

mark

milomo · #9 03-26-2008, 10:21 AM

I forgot Andrew Hill's Smokstack. You get both Richard Davis and Eddie Khan, with Roy Haynes to boot

damonsmith · #10 03-26-2008, 11:34 AM

Haden and LaFaro are nice, but the quartet with Haden and Izenzon and Blackwell on drums is much better.
I just got mp3s in my email of a great bass trio I did on the 14th in Tel Aviv. It just felt like playing with two other good musicians.

nathanmcnathan · #11 03-29-2008, 09:14 PM

I think it'll be really interesting... I'm much more melodical and technical than he is... I'm going to have to teach him a bit more about imrpovisation though. I'll probably end up doing the melodic stuff while he walks or plays ostinatos... playing mostly my own tunes, which are a blend of hard bop/modern influences - really easy to see I'm influenced by Mingus, whereas I have to remind the other bassist to play acoustically - he doesn't pay any attention to fingerings, so sometimes his tone gets very weak, and he's still thining he can approach it the same as BG (even though on BG we're both more funk-oriented), I think it'll work out nicely - if it doesn't bassist #2 is gonna play trombone and trumpet

Revvv · #12 03-29-2008, 09:47 PM

I asked this question about 2 weeks ago and never got a response.

2 basses and one band.

nathanmcnathan · #13 04-07-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revvv

I asked this question about 2 weeks ago and never got a response.

2 basses and one band.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that I'm awesome

lizdarocker · #14 04-11-2008, 02:25 PM

Two basses in a band eh? quite interesting. Place where I can hear your stuff???

Liz

chop_1992 · #15 04-11-2008, 03:51 PM

You can hear Oscar Stagnaro and me playing a duet on Paquito D'Rivera's "Basstronaut" with the WDR Big Band. Go to Oscar's MySpace Page and select "Basstronaut" in his music samples.

You can see and hear a bunch of good bass playing here. That's the WDR Big Band. I'm playing bass in the ensemble sections, and "Superbass" is out front, playing, well . . . super.

I always enjoy playing with two or more basses. Bass players tend to be good listeners.

Dig Wilbur Ware · #16 04-15-2008, 05:07 PM

Clifford Jordan In the World (Strata-East)

Richard Davis
Wilbur Ware
Tootie Heath *and* Ed Blackwell

damonsmith · #17 04-16-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dig Wilbur Ware

Clifford Jordan In the World (Strata-East)

Richard Davis
Wilbur Ware
Tootie Heath *and* Ed Blackwell

Great tip, never heard of that one. I just got it. The complete personnel
Clifford Jordan: tenor sax; Julian Preister: trombone; Don Cherry: trumpet*; Wynton Kelly: piano; Wilbur Ware: bass; Richard Davis: bass; Al Heath: drums*; *Side One Only; On Side Two: Kenny Dorham: trumpet; Roy Haynes: drums; Ed Blackwell: drums.