Volume and sound

JavierBass · #1 08-04-2009, 12:13 PM

I want to know what some of the guys around here do to work on volume and sound. I often play unamped but I feel like it's possible for me to draw a bigger sound from my bass. I play with a one finger Ray Brown sort of pull, I want to know if you guys have any right hand exercises or techniques that may be helpful for improving my sound and getting a big sound. I always wonder how the greats back then, and even nowadays guys like Dennis Irwin and Ben Wolfe can get a huge unamped sound.

David Kaczorowski · #2 08-04-2009, 03:00 PM

Work on your left hand. That's where projection and tone come from.

JavierBass · #3 08-04-2009, 05:34 PM

Hmm. Well, I work on my left hand, alot of classical etudes and standard bass repertoire and playing in an orchestra to get a very clean left hand. I'm talking about right hand issues since I spend most of my time refining my left hand and never really work as much on my right hand pizz.

Bijoux · #4 08-04-2009, 05:39 PM

sometimes if I want a boomier/louder sound I play a little bit down on the fingerboard (away from the bridge), it helps if the action is somewhere between medium and above.
I also try to get closer to the wall as I can. also I don't know if the next one really does anything, but if I press my knee/left leg against the back of the bass "it feels" like I am getting more volume.

David Kaczorowski · #5 08-04-2009, 06:30 PM

Got it, but if you want to "draw a bigger sound" from your bass, work on your left hand some more; long tones with the bow.

jazz+bass · #6 08-04-2009, 07:58 PM

Play that bass like a man!

Pull hard with the right hand down by the end of the fingerboard, and anchor it like a rock with that left hand claw of yours. If you are doing this and still can't get the desired volume, either you need to get some more strength or your bass isn't set up great.

Also, I take no responsibility for any possible injuries sustained from this method!!! Always listen to your body and make sure you have the best teacher you can get.

Bijoux · #7 08-04-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazz+bass

Play that bass like a man!

Pull hard with the right hand down by the end of the fingerboard, and anchor it like a rock with that left hand claw of yours. If you are doing this and still can't get the desired volume, either you need to get some more strength or your bass isn't set up great.

Also, I take no responsibility for any possible injuries sustained from this method!!! Always listen to your body and make sure you have the best teacher you can get.

LMAO!!!

JavierBass · #8 08-04-2009, 09:44 PM

Yeah, I pull them strings right at the end of the fingerboard. I have my strings at about
9mm-13mm. Long tones is a great suggestion, I haven't being doing enough of them lately. I ain't saying that I can't play loud, I can play pretty loud with my setup and bass, but I'm talking about guys like Ray Brown who have this massive acoustic sound. I've done my best to emulate that, I just want to know if any of you guys might know more about it. Jazz+bass you talked about developing more strength, got any tips for that?

JavierBass · #9 08-04-2009, 09:47 PM

I meant my string height at the end of the fingerboard is about 10mm G to 13mm E

Bijoux · #10 08-04-2009, 09:52 PM

well, it's a very known fact that Ray Brown's action was moderate. in fact lower that what you have now. earlier in his career it might have been pretty high. but are you judging by hearing Ray Brown live, or just from recordings? ... because frankly on recordings even Brian Bromberg's bass sounds huge! and his action is close to a bass guitar action! maybe it does have to do with the bass/strings/soundpost location combination. I played 8 basses today at the local luthier, and some basses are just louder than others.

Scott McC · #11 08-04-2009, 10:42 PM

I periodically go through bouts of really working on my right hand. My old room mate is an awesome bass player and gets a gigantic sound out of his bass. I would ease drop on his practicing in order to steal ideas. He set his metronome on 40 and just pulled the bejesus out of the G for a while, then the D etc. I asked him about it, and he said he just relaxed and really focused on getting through the string quickly, strongly and cleanly. Once the quarter note felt good, he'd move on to eighths, triplets etc. I did this myself for a long time and it really helped. Its kinda boring, but if you zone out on it, it can be fun.

JavierBass · #12 08-04-2009, 11:04 PM

I keep my strings at that height since it feels easier to grab the string and dig in and it's good enough that I still have mobility all over the bass and speed and it's still a comfortable height for my left hand. I'm talking about Ray Brown live of course but more about players in general during the days of no amps. How some players in big bands would have to really amplify their sound. I've been reading through the upright unplugged thread and it made me think what can I do to improve my acoustic no amp sound.

Bijoux · #13 08-05-2009, 10:00 AM

well you know, I of course wasn't there, but I think that maybe the others members of the band might have had a slightly different approach. for instance when you look at those videos on youtube, like real old Bill Evans stuff, black and white, and also Hazel Scott with Mingus on bass, and that sort of thing from the mid 50's etc. it seems to me that of course bass players were really digging in, gut strings, high action etc. and at the same time the band was sort of creating a space for the bass as well. I think, or I have the impression that guys were listening a lot more to each other.
on the other hand, today most guys don't even know what it means to play completely acoustically, and they have never experienced that not even in rehearsals. and I know many bass players that from the get go have chosen to sacrifice sound in order to achieve speed and mobility. so the bass players themselves have not experience some of the qualities and aspects of their own instrument.

**Damon Rondeau** · #14 08-05-2009, 11:47 AM

It's so easy to forget: the sound you hear with your ears at the peghead is not the sound somebody hears sitting 10 feet in front of you.

I'm not saying that's your situation, OP, I'm just sayin'...

Bijoux · #15 08-05-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

It's so easy to forget: the sound you hear with your ears at the peghead is not the sound somebody hears sitting 10 feet in front of you.

I'm not saying that's your situation, OP, I'm just sayin'...

yeap, that is very true.
a couple of weeks ago I played with Dave and Don Grusin at the Lensic Theatre in Santa Fe-NM and on the very first song something went wrong and I had to play the whole first song completely un-amplified. somehow people told me they could still hear me. maybe not as well, but apparently it was much better than I thought!

Ed Fuqua · #16 08-06-2009, 12:14 AM

The thing that most concerns me is this constant emphasis on "hand", you keep saying "my right hand". Getting a focused, warm, projecting sound doesn't happen in the hand, it's forearm, shoulder and upper torso. Just like the bow. Physics will help you get to the sound, pulling harder or localizing your efforts at the end of your arm will get you closer to repetitive stress syndrome. Talk to your teacher (better yet, talk to my teacher), they will help you get there without damage.

JavierBass · #17 08-06-2009, 12:48 PM

True Ed, I guess I should have said right side, or umm...yeah. As far as my forearm and shoulder goes, I learned how to really use that efficiently from Rufus Reid, and in watching videos of Sam Jones and Ray Brown. Yeah, this is the first thing I'll talk to my teacher about once I get back to school. Who's your teacher Ed? I remember in another thread reading about unamplified playing that you mentioned him and that you yourself play acoustically for practical purposes. I think it feels alot better and there's a greater dynamic happening without an amp, although sometimes you just have to turn the sucker on. But what are some things Ed to work on in order to develop the projecting, focused sound I'm looking for.

Ed Fuqua · #18 08-06-2009, 12:59 PM

My teacher's Joe Solomon, and other than a general description as above, this really needs to be dealt with by having another human in the room with you, rather than typing over the web ...

JavierBass · #19 08-06-2009, 01:20 PM

True. My physical approach is something I can deal with my teacher. I'm just looking to see if anyone has any good suggestions on exercises to improve tone. For example, long tones, Rufus Reid showed me a few exercises to refine tone. Stuff along the lines of exercises that have worked for some people that I can try to incorporate in my daily practice. Refining tone and sound is a lifelong process and something I can always improve on, I'm just curious how you guys go about improving on it.

Bijoux · #20 08-06-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JavierBass

True. My physical approach is something I can deal with my teacher. I'm just looking to see if anyone has any good suggestions on exercises to improve tone. For example, long tones, Rufus Reid showed me a few exercises to refine tone. Stuff along the lines of exercises that have worked for some people that I can try to incorporate in my daily practice. Refining tone and sound is a lifelong process and something I can always improve on, I'm just curious how you guys go about improving on it.

well, here is my humble suggestion.
being that Rufus Reid, already showed you some stuff, being that you already worked on your right hand, and being that you already watched how Ray Brown uses his right arm, shoulder, weight, etc. I think that maybe now you can shut off your computer and just spend a few hours playing the bass. Try doing that several hours a day and reaching deeper levels of intimacy with your instrument.