where to go from diatonic modes

[Frequencyshawn]

Sorry wrong place. I meant to send this to a different thread.

But to respond. Did you understand the original question or my response? I was pointing this answer towards a question based on the knowledge that the learner only had original major scale modes down. The method I explained allows for that person to quickly access the harmonic minor modes using major modes to avoid memorizing another scale and it's rules. I never said it replaces theory eartraining, transcription, transposition, listening, jamming. It was simply a method avoid extra effort and helps u see the difference on your neck between scales / modes. But you seem like you know what your want using feeling and natural methods I use those as well.

[Frequencyshawn]

Lol never mind I just realized you were agreeing with me lol. Silly me Sorry.

[Treyzer]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

OP- Lydian dom is the 4th mode of melodic minor.

Take everything you say you're not 100% on and shed that. Especially transcription! Transcribing is the best tool we have for jazz, as it benefits your ear, sound, and feel simultaneously. It's the closest thing we have to a short cut.

Diddy has a good point on focus. Learning to play jazz by theory is like learning to speak Spanish by memorizing vocabulary. You may have some of the tools but you don't know how to put it together.

Honor the tradition. It deserves it.

Good discussion and some great points. Hope my 2 cents is not a derail.

The one thing that sticks out to me in this discussion is that there is not a one size fits all approach to teaching these concepts/ideas.

Based on my experiences as a teacher, it seems that learning is messy and each individual being taught learns at their own pace and in their own way. Many times material has to be re-taught and there is nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of studies that show we humans learn in many different ways and at different paces.

I completely agree that transcription is pretty much at the heart of learning to play this music we are discussing (not string choice or amp selection), transcription can be pretty easy for some and extremely hard for others.

Maybe teaching these concepts could be considered as similar to bass luthiery where each instrument is made lovingly by hand.

Again, I hope this is not too much off topic.

[Frequencyshawn]

No that's a great unbiased intelligent answer. When I study I actually use my voice first to mimic the instrument. I try to use dynamics and let the music motive through me. Of course you can't always do that.

Sometimes I use only percussion and play along with solos or comping only paying attention to the rhythmic entity. This is called limiting. It allows for a player to access a single element. Like building the safest vehicle each part needs to be refined And then built. Taking it apart for upgrades to allow it to do things it couldn't before. (4/10 analogy lol )

I disagree about theory though. I think certain students with a more research logical personality find it imperative I understand fully before diving in. As well feeling can be augmented when you know why. Your ears can be helped by your understanding of what you are listening to. You guys are all very well versed. I as well teach. 40 h a week and play in two jazz bands. I'll never know enough. Lol how about you guys any comments or questions?

Shawn

[Frequencyshawn]

To add my favorite exercise is to sheet out and analyze my transcriptions allowing it to be easily transposed and recreated with understanding and logic.

[erizone]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Well, sure, but when calling up somebody to sub or when chatting with someone at a jam session who wants to come up and play, is "i prefer the 13 minute jam type of song so i never bother to learn the melodies because i'm pretty happy being funky over a few weird chords and a bridge part that gets thrown in wherever and a backbeat." what you want to hear?

well duh, that's why i'm asking for advice here...

and getting quiet a lot of good advice, mixed with some not so good. I guess my next step is repertoir, as for bird heads i've done au privave and billies bounce but not in a while. i am making a conscious effort to learn melodies now, thanks everyone!

[Violen]

Its all just colors. React to them and feel them.

[Frequencyshawn]

That's good. I hope the information I have helps. I train jazz students regularly. If you feel the information isn't well directed let me know.

You ever try autumn leaves ? Or beautiful love? It's good to get the most common standards Dow. First in case you jam

[erizone]

FREQUENCYSHAWN, what i'm looking for is a guy who's willing to be a personal mentor. I had that at UNI but 10k a semester wasn't worth it (for me anyways). the guy was really fantastic.

here is my current practice routine
warmup --->(all double octave)harmonic minor harmonisation (doublestops), harmonic minor arpeggios, dominant arpeggios,
modal improvisation (lyd, dorian, whatever) improvisation of walking lines and soloing ideas over bye bye blues, bebop blues changes, Tune Up, Rhythm Changes, or modal tunes
free improvisation, just trying to get difficult things from in my head to transfered to my fingers
random key Autumn Leaves walking/solo (i've done it in F and Eb and D as well as other keys)
hit a new song just the changes


I would you recommend I start? more melodies is probably an obvious one, I'm having trouble with position shifts (using entire range of instrument) i seem to get stuck in certain ranges with little ability to get to a new range when i want to, maybe just an exercise over the free improv for that.

[hdiddy]

Get a teacher - a private one. It won't cost you 10K

[Treyzer]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Get a teacher - a private one. It won't cost you 10K

[Frequencyshawn]

Hey,

Getting a teacher will really help. I think you need a small. And with one soloist who are eager and want someone to jam with a lot I practiced and practiced but jamming with abersd or YouTube won't replace a regular jam situation. Also try to focus on 2 5 1 both major and minor. They make up a lot of jazz. Leave the more intense tunes for after. If you look it up online some jazzers have lists made grading the standards into difficulty Levels. Transcription and listening with a pad of blank sheet music, and the actual fake chart will increase your skills write out some of your favorite bass lines and try them with your new found jam band. Again start off slow and make sure you have a solid drummer who actually plays jazz.
A teacher is great but I wouldnt only focus there. You. An only go so far teaching someone how to improvise. I usually take off the training wheels with my students early and let them develop their own sound. If they mimic too much it isn't really improve lol.

[Frequencyshawn]

I and always keep players around you who are above your level.

[Frequencyshawn]

Oops more melodies is great. I would hit. Piano for that though And practice comping. When you understand compin and melody better it's easy to think playing around and with them

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by erizone

what i'm looking for is a guy who's willing to be a personal mentor....

Wouldn't we all..?!

As others have said in this thread, you just need to be doing it - learn by doing it. Join bands, go to jams, workshops etc.

If you find the right group of players then you will learn from them - not too far above you, that they just see you as an irritant; but far enough that they can drag you through a gig without falling over!

[Roy Vogt]

Go here and work through the playalongs in order as well (there's a suggested order on the website):
www.jazzbooks.com
If you don't already have it, go to Sher Music and get The Improvisor's Bass Method.
www.shermusic.com
As far as modes of melodic/harmonic minor, get a piece of paper and write them out. Then take the modes and rearrange them as 1-3-5-7-9(2 8va)-11 (4 8va) and 13 (6 8va). That's it. That's all there is. Sometimes the upper extensions don't sound good (i.e. a diatonic 11 against a Major 3rd) sometimes they do.
Get a teacher, if it's only for a couple of lessons to set you straight. Try this guy if you can't find anyone locally (always better in person, IMO):
http://artistworks.com/jazz-bass-lessons-john-patitucci

[erizone]

thnx everyone, anyone know any noobish jazzers in so mass or no rhode island?


EDIT: wow what a noobish question, I just hit 1 jam and from there started talking to the right people and now i know where 4 jams a week are and i've already hit 3, and seeing a lot of the same people
holy crap it feels good to finally be meeting other artists, and not just playing to youtube or a metronome