a question on design of thumb NT?

[joebar]

my friend just purchased a brand new thumb NT 4 string.
beauty machine.
we both noticed something about the NT vs. the BO...
he had slammed the bridge and saddles as low as they would go into the body and the action was still too high.
we couldn't understand it until we looked at the profile of the fingerboards(my BO vs. his NT)
on the BO thumb, the fingerboard is elevated higher above the body than the NT fingerboard by a considerable amount; that would explain why my BO adjusts nicely with room to spare in either direction and his bridge is bottomed out and still too high.

also raised another question- if his NT was a fretless bass, the action would be a mile high...



the truss rod is dialed in perfectly and we have five warwicks amongst us to compare with.

i am surprised i haven't seen a thread such as this before.

could anyone shed some light on this?

[Means2nEnd]

Joebar, I know exactly what you are talking about but it’s definitely not something that is say that exactly with every BO or that way with every NT. There a general design of the neck and body and I have only had that bottoming out and can’t get low enough with NT’s (for the most part) but it also happened to me with one BO as well. I still believe although Warwick has this thing down to almost an exact science there is still and always will be slight variances from one to the next and actually I like that. That means I can still find “the one” except I already have…

So without having to do crazy work to you instrument there is something your friend can do and it will be an immediate fix if you hadn’t already thought of it. There is a string from DR called “Longnecks” they are steel roundwounds sound like high beams to me. Great news every string but the G is tapered by the ball of the string and for a good bit so the thinner part of the taper will sit in the saddle causing the string to sit just little lower into the saddle and on every bass I had an issue with it was just enough to make it perfect in fact I had to raise them slightly. You could even get a set of F Bass strings where it’s like complete exposed core but I had tried them and for me there was a weird rubber band feeling to the string but it will give that dropping down into the saddle effect even more so.

This might not fix it 100% but it’s worth the cost of a set of strings…um they sound killer too. BTW Warwick is not the only bass maker I had a similar issue with 2 different MM SR5's did the same thing and the same thing worked.

[joebar]

Originally Posted by Means2nEnd

Joebar, I know exactly what you are talking about but it’s definitely not something that is say that exactly with every BO or that way with every NT. There a general design of the neck and body and I have only had that bottoming out and can’t get low enough with NT’s (for the most part) but it also happened to me with one BO as well. I still believe although Warwick has this thing down to almost an exact science there is still and always will be slight variances from one to the next and actually I like that. That means I can still find “the one” except I already have…

So without having to do crazy work to you instrument there is something your friend can do and it will be an immediate fix if you hadn’t already thought of it. There is a string from DR called “Longnecks” they are steel roundwounds sound like high beams to me. Great news every string but the G is tapered by the ball of the string and for a good bit so the thinner part of the taper will sit in the saddle causing the string to sit just little lower into the saddle and on every bass I had an issue with it was just enough to make it perfect in fact I had to raise them slightly. You could even get a set of F Bass strings where it’s like complete exposed core but I had tried them and for me there was a weird rubber band feeling to the string but it will give that dropping down into the saddle effect even more so.

This might not fix it 100% but it’s worth the cost of a set of strings…um they sound killer too. BTW Warwick is not the only bass maker I had a similar issue with 2 different MM SR5's did the same thing and the same thing worked.

thx for the input Means, but it still is bugging him.
aside from your idea, the only solution that i can see is to file down the saddle slots on the bridge.

between myself and my friend we own 5 warwick basses-we love them. this is not a bash on them or anything, but he is so unimpressed by the lack of adjustability on his NT that he is ready to sell it and find a BO thumb instead (he would be the first bassist in history to do that).
i personally think that is the best thing he can do.
i am unimpressed too-his experience would be enough for me not to pursue getting a NT. there is a considerable difference between the height of the fretboard above the body on my BO vs. his NT thumb.again, this is why my bass has lots of room in either direction to adjust the action, and his is bottomed out and still too high. why WW would make a design that would limit a player's ability to set up the bass to his liking is a huge problem IMO.

Means-you mentioned that you thought WW had their basse down to an exact science; they boast about their workmanship incessantly. a "slight variance" as you call it isn't a quarter inch difference in height of the necks above the body on two different thumbs.

i realize they are different models, and we had five WW's to compare to each other. the BO's are constructed better in that regard. bottom line-if your design doesn't allow you to adjust the bass, then design it so it will.

this would not stop me from buying another WW- it would just stop me from buying a NT warwick.

i am surprised no one else has piped up in the last few days here about the subject.

[WarwickOfficial]

joebar - I've personally never experienced this with an NT - I contacted NY Custom Shop and they felt it was quite the opposite, as they can get insanely low action on the NT. I think there may be something else that is not quite right. Be sure you've gone through all the setup techniques seen here: http://warwick.de/modules/infos/info...ID=23974&cl=EN and if you are still having issues contact our tech, Dan, at the NY Shop. d.africano@warwick.de or call 212-777-6990 and he can talk you through some additional steps, or work out sending the bass in for a look. Thanks!

[dmusic148]

Two possibilities: the truss rod is too loose, or the bass was made wrong. There are no other options.

[joebar]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Two possibilities: the truss rod is too loose, or the bass was made wrong. There are no other options.

the rod is dialed in really nice.
i agree with you.
it might explain why he got such a killer deal on it...
it sure is breathtakingly beautiful though.

[Philonius]

Just in case something obvious is being overlooked: in addition to adjusting the individual bridge saddles, Warwicks allow you to raise/lower the entire bridge assembly via (not looking at my bass right now, so could be incorrect) four recessed hex screws located on each corner of the bridge plate.

If not that?

[Crabby]

Thanks guys. Its my bass that Joebar has been talking about. I have set up the bass fully and ensured that the truss rod is optimized with almost no relief. The saddles are as low as they can go and so is the bridge. The bridge is sitting on the base plate and there is no way it can go lower. It is totally different then my Streamer or my Corvette which both allow for the bridge to sink into the body.

Its a gorgeous bass but the action is not where I want it and I have no other way to adjust it. I'm really not surewhere to go from here.

[WarwickOfficial]

Crabby, are you sure the base-plate is properly seated? I've seen it before where the base-plate is not seated properly, and the bridge bottoms out before going lower. Give Dan a call at the NY Custom Shop and he can go over things with you. Thanks again!

[Crabby]

I will have to have a look. The base plate appeared to be sitting securing in the routed cavity but I will examine it again to see if it can sink in any lower. I only need a little bit to make the action perfect. Its just the idea that everything is as low as it can go that seems ridiculous for such a high end bass.

Other then this issue, I am in love with mynewThumb!
I will keep you all updated.

[WarwickOfficial]

Yes, please keep us updated. I have a feeling the base-plate might be the issue, which I have seen happen before. You should have plenty of room for adjustments, without everything maxed out. Thanks again!

[Means2nEnd]

I am of the school of thought these guys know exactly what they are doing and how to set it up. The difference I believe can be so minute in the building of a WW they are under very tight specs and tolerances and build quality is of the best I have seen ever but there can be differences from one to the next there is still hand craftsmanship involved as well. I have owned some custom basses north of ^K riddled with issues and problems. It’s not the end of the world and all can be remedied. Its wood not steel it’s organic and can move and shift. I prefer this actually that why own as many basses as I do they are all different. Even the same model same electronics can still and usually do sound different.

There are two more things you can do that will involve work. The simplest thing you can do yourself as well although I am 99% sure the DR strings I suggested would cure your ill. Removing the neck and adding a shim close to the body so will cause a slight tilt of the neck going back will fix it. This is not unusual almost every single USA made MusicMan Stingray 5 I have owned has shims they actually design them that way. In fact my last one with the roasted neck was just like what you described but worse but it actually came with extra shims for the neck they are plastic and different colors indicating different thicknesses to give greater or lesser degrees of a back tilt. Many Fenders have them as well. Rejoice in the fact it is a bolt on and can be done easily. I have even used guitar pics in the past.

If the thought of a shim under your neck makes your skin crawl you could remove the saddle holding part of the bridge not the string tree part and take a Dremel with the routing attachment and remove an 1/8 th of an inch of wood and then it will sit lower into the body and fix it as well but this is not for the faint of heart.

So that’s it those are pretty much your options each one increasing in the level of difficulty to pull of correctly and personally the strings would do it but the shim would be my next plan of attack. It’s not an indication of a horrible bass or bass company it’s just a bump in the road. It’s also part of what makes that Thumb unique and sound different in the end than every other one.

Good info...Don't be a hater just shim

http://forums.ernieball.com/music-ma...out-shims.html

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Means2nEnd

Good info...Don't be a hater just shim

http://forums.ernieball.com/music-ma...out-shims.html

Pretty hard to shim a neck-through.

Worst-case for this bass is you'll have to route the bridge cavity a little deeper. Not THAT big a deal, but it should be covered somehow.

[Means2nEnd]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Pretty hard to shim a neck-through.

Worst-case for this bass is you'll have to route the bridge cavity a little deeper. Not THAT big a deal, but it should be covered somehow.

Hard? You take the neck off and put a small thin piece of material like wood or plastce and screw back on.

[WarwickOfficial]

This bass is a Neck-Through, so shims are out of the question. But I still think the base-plate of the bridge is suspect, not allowing the top portion of the bridge to lower as it should. I have seen this happen before, and once remedied all is fine. Thanks for the input!

[bassteban]

Originally Posted by Means2nEnd

Hard? You take the neck off and put a small thin piece of material like wood or plastce and screw back on.

Google *neck-through* and get back to us

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by Means2nEnd

Hard? You take the neck off

with a chainsaw.
Might void your warranty, though.

and put a small thin piece of material like wood or plastce and screw back on.

[jamestown94west]

Originally Posted by bassteban

Google *neck-through* and get back to us

+1

[joebar]

Originally Posted by WarwickOfficial

This bass is a Neck-Through, so shims are out of the question. But I still think the base-plate of the bridge is suspect, not allowing the top portion of the bridge to lower as it should. I have seen this happen before, and once remedied all is fine. Thanks for the input!

we thought about the routing the bridge pocket but it raised yet another question-

even if the pocket was deeper, the intonation screws on the outside of the bridge touch down on the body already so a larger pocket would be moot.

[WarwickOfficial]

joebar - Definitely give Dan at the NY Custom Shop a call tomorrow. He is an excellent tech and will hopefully have a better answer. Thanks again!