1/4 Note Triplets

TroyK · #1 07-21-2009, 10:42 PM

I've been working on my reading a lot this year and it's coming along BUT, how do I could a quarter note triplet? I know how to count an 1/8 note triplet and I understand what a quarter note triplet is, but I don't understand how to subdivide it down in a logical way that helps me count it.

Help?

semajniwdoog · #2 07-21-2009, 10:47 PM

eighth note triplets last the duration of one beat, and quarter note triplets last the duration of two beats - try conducting a 4/4 pattern and filling in the triplet on the fisrt two beats with the last two beats as standard quarter notes. Sorry, it's hard to explain over a message board

Ed Fuqua · #3 07-21-2009, 10:54 PM

Three against two, try feeling the metric modulation - the bar of "waltz" inherent in each half note.

TroyK · #4 07-21-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semajniwdoog

eighth note triplets last the duration of one beat, and quarter note triplets last the duration of two beats - try conducting a 4/4 pattern and filling in the triplet on the fisrt two beats with the last two beats as standard quarter notes. Sorry, it's hard to explain over a message board

Thanks, I had a lesson with my classical teacher tonight and she had trouble explaining it too and kind of gave me the same advice regarding conducting. I'll work on it. the problem is that I've never been conducted and I don't really think that way.

I understand what a 1/4 triplet is, 3 over 2, basically, I just don't know how to subdivide it into something that helps me.

In theory, if I thought of the measure in 12/8, then tied every other 1/8 note triplet, I'd have 1/4 note triplets. But my metronomic lightbulb hasn't gone on yet on this one.

I'll sit down with a metronome and see if I can work though it. Notable recordings that I know of that use this device are the bass figure in Haitian Fight Song and the melody to Lush Life. Any others that might be helpful to referrence?

funkydanbass · #5 07-21-2009, 11:06 PM

1 & A 2 & A

Jazzdogg · #6 07-21-2009, 11:06 PM

Does this help?

http://www.freedrumlessons.com/drum-...e-triplets.php

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #7 07-21-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

Thanks, I had a lesson with my classical teacher tonight and she had trouble explaining it too and kind of gave me the same advice regarding conducting. I'll work on it. the problem is that I've never been conducted and I don't really think that way.

I understand what a 1/4 triplet is, 3 over 2, basically, I just don't know how to subdivide it into something that helps me.

In theory, if I thought of the measure in 12/8, then tied every other 1/8 note triplet, I'd have 1/4 note triplets. But my metronomic lightbulb hasn't gone on yet on this one.

That's basically it. The easiest way to describe it is a reorganization/hemiola presentation of 8th note triplets. So instead of:

1 2 3 2 2 3 3 2 3 4 2 3

you keep the same triplet pulse and count:

1 2 3 2 2 3 3 2 3 4 2 3

which then becomes:

1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 2 & 3 &

Hope that made a little sense.

funkydanbass · #8 07-21-2009, 11:53 PM

RE: Chris' suggestion.

I personally find it easiest to maintain a consistent count. If I'm just playing 1 crotchet triplet in a compound feel I find it easiest to maintain the 1 & A 2 & A ...etc and still feel the downbeats, (maybe by tapping my foot).

I imagine it would be quite hard to count it as 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, (ie. counting in 2) yet still feeling the actual pulse... (in 3).

TroyK · #9 07-22-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Does this help?

http://www.freedrumlessons.com/drum-...e-triplets.php

That's a cool site! I may spend some time on it, but he's counting 1/8 note triplets, not 1/4 note triplets, which is where I'm stuck. I went to the index and he didn't have a section for 1/4 note triplets.

Chris, that's kind of how I had reasoned it, but your illustration makes it more clear to me. I'll work on it.

FunkyDan, I'm with you, it is hard for me. I'm going to:

a) work with the metronome on it and
b) spend some listening time with songs that I know do this and see if it comes together for me.

Thanks everyone.

Treyzer · #10 07-22-2009, 12:15 AM

Although this exercise does not specifically address the 1/4 note triplet, it is a great way to help you with subdivisions in general. A drummer turned me on to this and T. Kneeland demonstrates it very well.

As jazz bassists it is possible to become complacent playing what is "tried and true". R&B and funk bassist often become way more aware of subdivisions as their lines can cut up the time in some very interesting ways.

Treyzer · #11 07-22-2009, 12:18 AM

Here's the You Tube lesson I was talking about. Trust me it will help your overall sense of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhfdR...eature=channel

JehuJava · #12 07-22-2009, 12:39 AM

This one kicks my butt too. Is there a kodaly/solfege phrase for the 1/4 triplet? Like ta ta titi ta for 1/4, 1/4, 1/8, 1/8, 1/4? My brain works best if I can articulate the feel with words rather than forcing a count. I used to mess up dotted 1/4 followed by a 1/16 until my instructor gave me a phrase to learn the feel (which happened to be "funkity-gunk").

Dooley

bejoyous · #13 07-22-2009, 02:56 AM

Here's a good way to get a tactile feel for the quarter-note triplet:

1. Listen to I Want to Live in America from West Side Story.
2. say that phrase several time.
3. On the words I, Live, the letters m, i and c of America, pat your thigh; on words and letters Want To, to A, er and a of America ( ie Pat clap clap, Pat clap clap, Pat clap, Pat clap, Pat clap.
4. Just do the Pats at several tempos. In your mind you can think whatever works for you (123,123, 12, 12, 12; tri-pe-let, tri-pe-let, du-ple, du-ple, du-ple, etc.)
5. now listen to the first movement of Bruchner's 4th symphony to hear all those quarter-note triplets. There's also one at 8:41 of this recording of Mars from Holst's The Planets. They are all over the place in Copeland's El Salon Mexico (watch out for the guy drunk on Mezcal staggering to the bathroom and the fella high on Peyote dancing with the mop!

)

TroyK · #14 07-22-2009, 03:24 AM

Very helpful thank you!

I've got to save it. I've been working it and listening to recordings and now I must sleep. What I was doing was helping. I think the West Side Story thing may be the icing on the cake for me, though. Thanks,

Troy

Oh, and thanks to all.

TroyK · #15 07-22-2009, 03:41 PM

Alright, I've got it. Thanks guys. Lots of good advice here and then exchanging a night's sleep for work with the metronome and lots of listening has it in my head and under my fingers now.

More practice, of course.

Thanks again.

Troy

hdiddy · #16 07-22-2009, 07:08 PM

For a strong 1/4 note triplet I just look to afro-cuban drumming patterns. Afro-cuban 6/8 is very strong on the 1/4 note triplet feel. Listen to some of it and the pulse/dance is very apparent.

oliebrice · #17 07-23-2009, 04:07 AM

its quite easy to teach yourself to drum the 3 with one hand against the 2 with the other, using the counting described above. I found that doing that for ages, and alternating between speaking the 2 and then 3 out loud, really helped me to hear 3 against 2 as an actual sound, which makes it part of your available language.

Tom Gale · #18 07-23-2009, 11:05 AM

The easiest way is to take the full measure - lets say its 4/4 time - and take the measure in 2. Now, play the quarter note triplet in one large beat and the rest of the measure in the other large beat.
Once, I conducted highlights from the West Side Story. When we got to the "America" section, I did it in 2 instead of 4. Nobody had any trouble playing it exactly right.
Tom Gale
hope this helps...

Dogbertday · #19 07-23-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkydanbass

1 & A 2 & A

That

you first divide the two beats into triplets then you play those notes for a straight 1/4 note triplet feel... now in Jazz you tend to delay the last note of the triplet just a hair to keep it swinging. at least that's what my ears tell my when I hear professors and teachers play duple triplets in jazz

Jack Clark · #20 07-23-2009, 06:33 PM

Ed's simple statement (posted early on, above) does it for me. TroyK says he could already count 1/8-note triplets out of a quarter note. Well, you just count 1/4-note triplets out of a half note in the same way.

The ones I find challenging are the triplets where the second beat is a rest. But they still count the same way, you just don't voice the one in the middle.

Or am I off base on this? (I'm only an amateur, so . . .)