bowed bass in jazz

[farmerdude]

I would like to ditto Charles Mingus.
Record: Town hall Concert

I lost a 14-year-old brother 7 years ago to a car accident. His name is Eric. Just last Friday I went to the ole record store looking for some Mingus. I picked up this album with no idea of it's existence and read the titles: So Long Eric $ Praying With Eric (only two) I just about fell to the floor.....it was my brothers birthday that day.
Great recording, really touched me...the acro is very nice...the intonation that doesn’t quite hit the mark is very hip when Mingus does it...

[bootsaco]

yeah man, mingus was way into it. the way i've heard him tell it, he played with miles a little and he took a solo with a bow. miles told him to quit that 'classical ****'...well, shortly after that miles hired paul chambers(someone who's known for taking bowed solos) miles was a little stubborn, but after some thought, i guess he figured out it could be cool.
andy

[Marcus Johnson]

I agree on George Mraz and Harvie Swartz. The greatest for me is Paul Chambers. "Billy Boy" was the first arco thing I learned.

[oliebrice]

Originally Posted by Christopher

(How many good jazz violinists can you name? Grappelli, Ponty, Carter, Nance, Lockwood, Feldman...that's it for me!)

Mat Maneri, Billy Bang, Leroy Jenkins and Graham Clark are all great...

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Wow, finally someone mentions Paul Chambers.. I would have listed him first. I have heard Slam and used to hang out with Major Holly. I also remember another bow/singer in NY but probably not recorder very much if at all, Dr. Lynn Christie. He was pretty good. Gave up medicine to play Bass. That was in the late 60s, early 70s. My son brought home a CD/book to learn for his Jazz Band Audition 2 years ago with Todd Coolman (spelling?) on Bass.... He was pretty good but was no PC.
There is one of Quincy Jones's Recordings with Major Holly, GillaMatari (spelling?)....This is Majors' first big showcase to the world from what I have seen. In the 70s, I used to watch Eddie Gomez with Bill Evans and he was doing alot of Bowed Solos then. Mainly his own style.. free, upper register mostly.. Very pretty sounding.. very inspiring....

Ofcourse when you mention Stanley, he is Bowing the Bowed parts, like Richard Davis on his early solo records. The hard thing to do is Bow the Pizz type solos.. That's REAL work......

Bowing while improvising solos in be-bop is harder IMO. Harder than playing classical and much harder than pizz solos.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by oliebrice

Mat Maneri, Billy Bang, Leroy Jenkins and Graham Clark are all great...

Gotta add Florin Nicolescu to the great violinist list. Check out the s*** he does with Bireli Lagrene...yikes! He's the best right now, IMHO.

[wahyong]

[quote=KSB - Ken Smith]Wow, finally someone mentions Paul Chambers.. I would have listed him first. I have heard Slam and used to hang out with Major Holly. I also remember another bow/singer in NY but probably not recorder very much if at all, Dr. Lynn Christie. He was pretty good. Gave up medicine to play Bass. That was in the late 60s, early 70s. My son brought home a CD/book to learn for his Jazz Band Audition 2 years ago with Todd Coolman (spelling?) on Bass.... He was pretty good but was no PC.
QUOTE]

Check out Mr PC's stuff with Red Garland trio (Art Taylor on drums). Recordings like It's a Blue World, A Garland of Red, All Kinds of Weather (arco solo on Winter Wonderland!) etc. Also, Jim Stinnett has an excellent book on PC's bowings: Arcology Paul Chambers Solos Vol. 2-50 pages of arco bass solos!

Sorry... didn't realise the request for bass arcos recordings was so long ago. But I'll leave my post here for anybody looking for good jazz arco recordings.

[Andy Allen]

Coincidentally I was listening to Red Garland with PC on the Album "Groovy" last night.

I haven't listened to it for a while and it was a pleasant reminder of what a great album it is.

I don't have it here with me, but there's some nice arco on it - I have "All Kinds of Weather" at home too; I'll revisit that tonight.

[chief bogan]

Originally Posted by David Kaczorowski

Much of PC's sound can be attributed to plain gut strings and black horsehair. Really it's amazing it sounds that good, because when improvising you not only have to get the
bow to the string with the note, you have to think about bow speed and pressure and measuring your stroke to be prepared for wherever you're going.

A lot has to do with gut strings, especially the timbre of the instrument, but not all of it . I lot has to do, I think, with the whole approach or attitude of the player to bowed solos. I've been lucky enough to see Butch Warren playing around town in Washington DC (yes, he's still playing, and no one in DC has a deeper groove -- as you'd expect from PC's replacement at Blue Note). Butch likes to play bowed solos, using a French bow, but played German style, on a craptastic bass, strung with steel strings, miles high above the fingerboard, using a crappy pick up going through a crappy amp. But shut your eyes and listen, and you'd swear you were back in the 50's, listening to the kind of swinging solos PC used to take (not quite as virtuosic, it is true, but Butch can sure play the blues). Like all great players, Butch transcends the instrument he has to play -- strings, etc. it doesn't matter. It's all in his soul.

[Andy Allen]

My new bow, as mentioned in the Bows 'n' Rosin forum, has got me all excited about jazz arco - it's so much more satisfying to play than my old cheapo stick.

Anyway, I put together a little compilation CD with jazz arco tracks from my collection today - featured are:

Jimmy Blanton duets with Duke Ellington - Sophisticated Lady, Body and Soul, Mr. J.B. Blues.
Ray Brown - You Look Good To Me.
Paul Chambers - 2 tracks from "Groovy"
Aladar Pege - Manha de Carnival and Oleo (with Al DiMeola and Birelli Lagrene)

Thats all I had on hand at work to pick from, but the CD's almost full anyway. I'll be starting on "Jazz-Arco Vol. II" shortly

[Davehenning]

Slam's my all time favorite pound-for-pound bow player. His groove, his command and his musicality were incredible.....That live duet between him and Don Byas has to be one of the greatest things ever....

But I have an incredible bowed duet between Richard Davis and Freddie Hubbard called "Muses for Richard Davis." Big fat luscious tone.....tone for days.....

And anything with PC.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by bootsaco

yeah man, mingus was way into it. the way i've heard him tell it, he played with miles a little and he took a solo with a bow. miles told him to quit that 'classical ****

Andy, Miles Davis was one of the worlds great PUT-ONS

[Damon Rondeau]

...except I've read that Monk did exactly the same thing -- can't remember which bass player it was (the info's at home and I'm not.) The way the story's told in the Monk bio by Gourse, Monk was polite, even a little reluctant to ask, but told the bassist to "leave the bow alone." Monk objected to the classical sound and look. Funny, 'cause he certainly did listen to all kindsa stuff, lotsa classical, opera, etc.

You were part of that world, Paul, and I wasn't, but isn't it true that this type of musical prejudgement wasn't exactly uncommon on either side of the jazz/classical fence?

These days, it seems to me, minds seem a little more open.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

...
You were part of that world, Paul, and I wasn't, but isn't it true that this type of musical prejudgement wasn't exactly uncommon on either side of the jazz/classical fence?
These days, it seems to me, minds seem a little more open.

You're a little late on that one I think Damon...during the be-bop era there was quite a bit of respect from one genre to the other......Now, of course i'm not quite that old, there was sometimes no love lost between some of those old moldy fig characters of the swing era and the classical cats. Guys like Eddie Condon. But, even then, all the classical pianists were goin' down to hear Art Tatum!
But yeah Damon, nothing like today!

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

But, even then, all the classical pianists were goin' down to hear Art Tatum!

My two favorite Horowitz/Tatum stories

1. Horowitz, on hearing a recording of Tatum playing, "That's impossible!"

2. Tatum, on hearing that Horowitz had played a transcription of a difficult solo of his, " He may know WHAT I played, but he doesn't know WHY I played it."

[Damon Rondeau]

Taking the point in a slightly different direction, I've spent some time listening to Art Tatum. I can see why he scared piano players, no doubt. Personally, I'd rather listen to Monk -- or a good stride player -- any day.

Maybe Miles and Monk asked these cats to quiver the bow 'cause the bow just didn't make it...