Classical Era Concertos- Vanhal and Dittersdorf

[Illfavor]

I'm trying to select a Concerto to play, and want to play something by Vanhal or Dittersdorf. I believe they both wrote 2 concertos, Dittersdorf's in D and E flat, and Vanhal's in C and D? Which of the 4 is the most challenging to learn? Which one sounds the best(overall best piece of music)?

[mcnaire2004]

If I'm not mistaken Vanhal only wrote one concerto. When you see something that says 'Concerto in C' or 'Concerto in D' it is the same concerto in a different key. Usually half or a whole step difference with the same sound. I know Dittersdorf had Concerto's 'Concerto in E flat major', 'Concerto in E major', 'Concerto No. 2 in D', 'Concerto 2', and 'Concerto No. 1 in D'. All of that was just 2 concerto's. In different keys. But I haven't heard any of them so I don't have any info on either of them.

[PaulCannon]

I really hate the Dittersdorf concerti. I've played Vanhal, and would probably recommend that one. Mcnaire is correct, Vanhal only wrote one concerto. You'll actually find it in either C, D, or E. My version was in D major, but transposed up another whole step for solo tuning. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably relearn it in C. Seems like it would be much easier.

[GirlBass]

I agree with Paul. Unless you're taking a European audition (those euros love Dittersdorf!) you should definitely try the Vanhal concerto instead.
Unless of course you like the Dittersdorf, then go ahead and play it!

[Illfavor]

So the Vanhal is generally liked more than the Dittersdorf (I'll never be auditioning in Europe), and Paul thinks the one in C Major is easiest to learn. Thanks!

[mcnaire2004]

As a general rule of thumb for me... The less sharpes and flats the easier. C, just happens to have none. Of course this isn't always true but works for me.

[ClassicalBass]

Unless you want a challenge of course.

My friend played one of the Dittersdorf concertos, and I was annoyed within seconds. Didn't he also compose for viola? Did he play either instrument? What kind of father names his child Ditters Von Dittersdorf?

[Illfavor]

I never really liked C Major. I'd much rather be in G or D in the upper octaves. Don't really know why....

I know Vanhal wrote for Viola, and I think Dittersdorf wrote a duet for Viola and Bass. I also remember reading somewhere that "von Dittersdorf" was a title he got when he was made something of political importance...like a Duke or Baron or something.

[GirlBass]

I don't understand how a person can dislike an entire key signature. But then again I don't have perfect pitch so they all sound the same to me.

[Illfavor]

Originally Posted by GirlBass

I don't understand how a person can dislike an entire key signature. But then again I don't have perfect pitch so they all sound the same to me.

One reason I don't like C major is that most songs in C are Baroque/Classical and I get annoyed play "Root Root Fifth Root" and such. I feel like I'm honking on C's all the time. I get the feeling playing other notes is more interesting, or that the composer couldn't be inventive with his key signature. It just screams "generic, happy, and boring"

[PaulCannon]

It's the same piece, no matter what key you pick!

[JoeyNaeger]

I remember it being mentioned in a master class that there is a passage in the Vanhaul that is near impossible in C major and most people end up just cutting it out...YMMV.

[PaulCannon]

Actually, that passage is generally cut regardless. I think it's been suggested that Vanhal didn't write the part in question, and it really doesn't contribute much to the rest of the piece.

[Heifetzbass]

Get an extension and you'll love C major or minor!

[Illfavor]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

It's the same piece, no matter what key you pick!

You serious?

[mcnaire2004]

Originally Posted by Illfavor

You serious?

Yes, he is serious. It is the exact same piece. For example, when I was at all-east last month one of the pieces we played was Hungarian March by Hector Berloiz. Before the clinic we received one that started in the key of Bb and our first note was G then Bb then G. When we got there they gave us a new version that started in the key of C. The first note was an A then C then A. It is the exact same thing except a whole step higher. Think of it as solo tuning. If some thing is in C and there is a version in G then that version will be a half step up. Or if it is in D then it is a whole step up. As another general rule of thumb for me again. Add one sharpe go up half. Add 2 sharpes go up a whole step. Subtract a sharpe or add a flat go down a half step. Subtract 2 sharpes or add 2 flats go down a whole step. To help me with the Dragonetti Concerto in G. I listened to a recording of the Concerto in A (couldn't find a recording of G). It helped me allot. The thing is it was the exact same thing. Just different key.

[Illfavor]

Thank you, I'm aware of that. Minuet in G and Minuet in A are the same thing terms of the relation of notes, but I wasn't really talking about that. I was actually alluding to the connotative qualities keys have. Many of my teachers and my Bible (The Mahler Companion) have assigned emotions or ideas to certain keys, and they would all probably disagree with the idea that a song is the same no matter the key.

[PaulCannon]

Uh huh. That's, uh, great for you, I guess. I'd be more concerned with finding the easiest possible version, but, you know, that's just me.

[GirlBass]

well remember that D minor is that saddest of all keys.

[Snakewood]

Take a look at the Cimador and Dragonetti. They're both incredibly beautiful works.