Is Double Bass a Solo Instrument?

[Bruce Lindfield]

So I was motivated by another thread in recordings to search for material about solo Classical DB music and I found the following article :

http://www.silviodallatorre.com/subr...ontent=publish


Double Bass as Solo Instrument?

by Silvio Dalla Torre.

His conclusion seems to be that it is far easier to be a solo player in Jazz than it is in Classical, although he sees no reason why it should be so - despite giving the following reasons of his own :

"So what are the differences between solo playing in jazz and classical solo performance?

1. The plucked jazz bass sounds fuller, more "bassy" than the bowed double bass, which usually has a nasal quality in its sound, something rough and brittle, and also has little carrying power.

2. Jazz bassists are often much more unconventional in their technique. As improvising musicians, they are not oriented to any studies or Etudes, but rather to their own imagination, and to top-class melodies. Anyone who wants to play Charlie Parker´s "Donna Lee", for example, has to think about the real aim of the exercise rather than about what is possible.

3. The jazz bass does not have to play high the whole time. It can present itself as what it is, and thus shine in every register."

He concludes :

"I believe that the classical double bass is just as much capable of development as the jazz bass. However, this will depend on a fundamental discussion of the musical requirements, playing techniques, and many of the accepted practices. "

So - why are there not more solo DB features in the Classical world - is he right with his reasons given above, or is it just the lack of a examples from the greats -

as he says "There are no Mozart or Beethoven sonatas, no works by Schubert or Schumann, still less a concerto by Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Elgar or Richard Strauss for double bass solo."


What do you think?

[Bruce Lindfield]

I suppose what surprised me was that the writer of the article himself has made several "Classical" solo bass recordings - yet seems to be doubting whether the instrument is suited to being a solo voice in the Classical field - although in Jazz and other contemporary styles it clearly is!

Whenever I look at programmes - say the 3 month-long Proms series at the Albert Hall - there is no DB solo music at all!

[Bassic83]

I think Brian Bromberg does pretty well at it...

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Bassic83

I think Brian Bromberg does pretty well at it...

Well I was talking about Classical solo DB - as you will see the article says that he thinks it's easier for Jazz players. so my question was about Classical in particular - no doubt there's many players in other fields!

[Bassic83]

Ah...I don't think there are many classical pieces written for DB...see, that's why I don't hang out here on the DB side too much. Well, I think I'll go back to my side now...

[Kam]

This is interesting.

I would say the jazz bassist can be better appreciated as a soloist because most often he/she is in an ensemble with instruments from different families, so there is a contrast of timbre and aesthetic - opposed to a bass concerto performed with an orchestra where the sound is a more homogeneous string sound.

That being said, however, the Minnesota Orchestra had a "Minnesota Idol" competition over the summer where kids competed for a chance to play with the orchestra. The final round for the 15-18 year olds had 3 finalists - A Natural Horn, Cello, and Double Bass. All three performed admirably, but the double bassist won playing movement 1 of Bottesini's concerto in b. The remarkable thing about this is that the judges were made up of the 1000+ members of the audience. I was kind of surprised, because although I knew the kid played his a** off, I didn't know if the general public would recognize it. So..I guess my point is, people appreciate a good classical bass soloist, even if orchestras aren't cognizant of it.

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by Kam

...people appreciate a good classical bass soloist, even if orchestras aren't cognizant of it.

Good point. Part of it is probably that the audience was blown away that the kid could make a double bass sound like a solo instrument. I think that the perception of the horn and cello as solo instruments affected it as well. In other words, people didn't know what to expect from a DB solo and the kid (obviously) rocked it.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Kam

This is interesting.

I would say the jazz bassist can be better appreciated as a soloist because most often he/she is in an ensemble with instruments from different families, so there is a contrast of timbre and aesthetic - opposed to a bass concerto performed with an orchestra where the sound is a more homogeneous string sound.

That's a good point - so in a concerto with reasonable size orchestra, it's going to be difficult for a DB to stand out?

That being said, however, the Minnesota Orchestra had a "Minnesota Idol" competition over the summer where kids competed for a chance to play with the orchestra. The final round for the 15-18 year olds had 3 finalists - A Natural Horn, Cello, and Double Bass. All three performed admirably, but the double bassist won playing movement 1 of Bottesini's concerto in b. The remarkable thing about this is that the judges were made up of the 1000+ members of the audience. I was kind of surprised, because although I knew the kid played his a** off, I didn't know if the general public would recognize it. So..I guess my point is, people appreciate a good classical bass soloist, even if orchestras aren't cognizant of it.

I'm suprised he beat a Cellist - but then I suppose it's a question of how impressive the performances looked - not just sound, in this case?

[Damon Rondeau]

Maybe the question needs to be asked differently, or come at from a different angle. Around here, us being double bassists and all, you're going to find all kinds of deep appreciation for the bass: how it sounds, how to play, what it's capable of. So we see all kinds of raison d'etre and potential for the bass, but we're insiders. Maybe we need to ask why bassists have had so little impact on written repertoire for the bass. In other words, where are the composers and the killer compositions for bass? Do composers not understand the bass? Do they not like the bass? Are bass players (i.e., understanders of the bass) not composers?

I wouldn't look at the instrument as such, I'd look at the situation of the instrument in the classical social milieu and its historical development there.

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

In other words, where are the composers and the killer compositions for bass? Do composers not understand the bass? Do they not like the bass? Are bass players (i.e., understanders of the bass) not composers?

I think most composers understand the bass as only accompaniment. Technique on the bass has only recently gotten to the point where it can compete with other instruments in terms of classical solos. Most composers love the bass but they don't understand how to write solos for it and there hasn't been much of a demand for them to learn how to write bass solos.

The ISB is on the right track with starting to commission solos from major composers. I'm not crazy about the Harbison concerto but I'm sure other composers can learn about writing solos for bass by some of the things that did and did not work in that piece.

I don't think there are many professional bass players today that are also composers. The only one that I can think off of the top of my head is Dave Anderson.

[Mark Perry]

I, don't know much about classical myself (altough my dads been playing classical guitar around the house since almost 20 years before i was born. Must of picked something up)
I'm pretty sure violin is tuned the same as the DB, ie theres lots of solo violin compositions and both instruments have the same range. No reason why there shouldn't be solo bass music.

[Kam]

I probably should have mentioned that the 18 year old bassist got into the Manhattan School with some decent scholarships I believe..he was one of my old teacher's students and is one hell of a bassist.

The Horn was a little lackluster..but impressive to those "in the know" since it was a natural horn with no valves. Unfortunately that left little to view and the performance paled in comparison to the abilities of the modern horn, though of course that wasn't the performer's fault.

The cellist did a wonderful performance..I forgot what piece it was, but I remember being worried that the she would get more votes simply because I thought the cello would be more popular as a solo instrument..

[Bethelbass1]

I also went to that concert where the Bass Player won. His performance was incredible but while I was excited by his playing, the people that I went with simply said "You're Just Biased".
I suppose that the bass can be a solo instrument, it's been done by Gary Karr, Edgar Meyer, and many others, but I think it takes more work to get to the level of competing with the other instruments. My teacher knew that young man who won and said that, at a camp, he was working on the Koussevitsky concerto as a 10th grader and would spend an hour on a single measure! IN solo bass playing there is no margin for error and, since the distance between intervals is larger, it is easier to err.
The Bass as solo instrument can be done, but in my opinion you have to start early and it has to be all-consuming.

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by Mark Perry

I'm pretty sure violin is tuned the same as the DB...

Actually it's reverse of the DB -- in 5ths. G-D-A-E from lowest string to highest.

And it's not as simple as transposing a violin concerto for DB. What can be played easily on the violin -- due to size and tuning -- cannot be easily played on the bass in most cases.

[Pcocobass]

1. The plucked jazz bass sounds fuller, more "bassy" than the bowed double bass, which usually has a nasal quality in its sound, something rough and brittle, and also has little carrying power.

I strongly disagree with this statement. A bowed bass has a huge carrying power and can cut through quite nicely, especially in higher registers. If the tone is nasal sounding, I'd blame that on the bassist and not on the double bass in general.

2. Jazz bassists are often much more unconventional in their technique. As improvising musicians, they are not oriented to any studies or Etudes, but rather to their own imagination, and to top-class melodies.

Most jazz bassists I know are classically trained and have studied Simandl and all the other well known etudes and so forth. Their technique is more often than not extremely conventional. As far as learning melodies and tunes, I do agree that doing so can really open up one's mind to new harmonic and rhythmic possibilities. But you can do the same thing by learning Bach, can't you?

3. The jazz bass does not have to play high the whole time. It can present itself as what it is, and thus shine in every register."

Again, I think this really depends on the player. I think the bass sounds good in any register, the player may not, though...

He concludes :

"I believe that the classical double bass is just as much capable of development as the jazz bass.

Couldn't agree more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't guys like Meyer, Karr, Dragonetti, Koussevitzky, etc. already proved that the double bass is a capable and beautiful solo instrument? Keep in mind, as a bass player, I have absolutely no bias one way or another.

Interesting article, Bruce. Thanks for sharing.
Pete

[Kam]

Originally Posted by Bethelbass1

I also went to that concert where the Bass Player won. His performance was incredible but while I was excited by his playing, the people that I went with simply said "You're Just Biased".

Were they musicians or common folk? I think musicians have a harder time accepting the bass as a solo instrument, or being impressed by a solo bass work, than your average orchestra subscriber..

Originally Posted by Bethelbass1

I suppose that the bass can be a solo instrument, it's been done by Gary Karr, Edgar Meyer, and many others, but I think it takes more work to get to the level of competing with the other instruments. My teacher knew that young man who won and said that, at a camp, he was working on the Koussevitsky concerto as a 10th grader and would spend an hour on a single measure! IN solo bass playing there is no margin for error and, since the distance between intervals is larger, it is easier to err.
The Bass as solo instrument can be done, but in my opinion you have to start early and it has to be all-consuming.

I disagree. Yes, I'm sure Patrick spent an hour on one measure of the Koussevitsky..as have I. That doesn't mean Patrick or I spent an hour on every measure of the concerto. The other thing to think about is that for that hour of work on that one measure, how many future obstacles become easier? The more you work on something that gives you trouble, the easier it will be in the future to learn new material with similar rhythms/pitch leaps/string crossings/etc.

[damonsmith]

A lot of bass players play solo on it, myself included, therefore it is a solo instrument. End of discussion.

[mcnaire2004]

The bass is a solo instrument. Public (though ignorant) appreciates a bass solo more than the rest of the orchestra. And, since (as in most instruments) a bassist wants to go somewhere they'll learn allot of solo music.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

So - why are there not more solo DB features in the Classical world - is he right with his reasons given above, or is it just the lack of a examples from the greats -

as he says "There are no Mozart or Beethoven sonatas, no works by Schubert or Schumann, still less a concerto by Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Elgar or Richard Strauss for double bass solo."


What do you think?

I think the limitations on Classical DB soloists are primarily a function of (1) lack of original repertoire and (2) bias on the part of classical music programmers against the DB. I have no real basis for this hypothesis, but I think there may be a chicken and egg problem wherein the promoters and the venue fear a concert featuring a DB soloist will not attract as wide an audience as the umpteenth performance of the Tchaikovsky violin concerto featuring the latest good-looking pubescent prodigy in a low-cut dress.

What would be terrific for the instrument is if the DB found its way into the hands of a good-looking pubescent prodigy who could play the Tchaikovsky on DB.

There's nothing inherently limited about the instrument itself that would prevent it from functioning as a solo instrument. There are still some comments from the classical community that the tone of the DB is "inherently" too quiet/nasal/low/unfocused to stand out above the orchestra, but players like Daxun Zhang prove those comments to be completely unfounded. It's just a matter of time before the DB finds equal footing with the rest of the strings.

[Bethelbass1]

Originally Posted by Kam

Were they musicians or common folk? I think musicians have a harder time accepting the bass as a solo instrument, or being impressed by a solo bass work, than your average orchestra subscriber..

I agree
The people that went with me to the concert were all musicians. One trumpet and two pianists. The pianists are very good musicians and I usually trust their judgment but they really don't understand the bass considering backgrounds in solo piano music and band.

Originally Posted by Kam

I disagree. Yes, I'm sure Patrick spent an hour on one measure of the Koussevitsky..as have I. That doesn't mean Patrick or I spent an hour on every measure of the concerto. The other thing to think about is that for that hour of work on that one measure, how many future obstacles become easier? The more you work on something that gives you trouble, the easier it will be in the future to learn new material with similar rhythms/pitch leaps/string crossings/etc.

I never meant to assume that one would practice every measure for an hour. In fact, it was the first measure of the double stops he allagedly spent an hour on which is an important and difficult spot. I too have spent a tremendous amount of time on it (though not one straight hour). I mostly meant that, it seems to me, that initial work to become "soloist capable" is quantitatively more that it is with traditionally soloistic instruments.