The Dragonetti/Beethoven and Bottesini/Verdi relationships

[Illfavor]

Does anyone know where I can find out more about these two famous Virtuoso/Composer pairings?

And perhaps how said relationships changed the face of bass playing?

[mcnaire2004]

I cant provide any links but I read some wear that Dragonetti showed Beethoven that the bass was a powerfull solo instrament. Which is supposebly why his bass parts are so tough. I don't think Bottesini had relationships with Dragonetti even though their life times did cross. I don't thank the Bottesini Verdi relationship changed bass playing. It was more of a opera relationship since Bottesini wrote and conducted opera.

[sibass89]

Bottesini is actually not famous for his bass playing or his composing. He was a very famous conductor of his time. He conducted the premiere of Verdi's opera Aida. They were close friends and it's said that Verdi could not think of anybody else to conduct the premiere. Bottesini's compositions might possibly not be around today if it wasn't for the fame he achieved as an opera conductor.

Dragonetti, supposedly never met Beethoven but when Beethoven heard him play he was inspired with what the bass can go. This also happened with Rossini, who when commissioned to write the Duo for Bass and Cello said only if Dragonetti performs it, and Dragonetti performed the premiere.

Some of this might be wrong. It was just some things I've picked up along the way with reading and some conclusions I've drawn.

-Nick

[Jeff Guevin]

Originally Posted by sibass89

Bottesini is actually not famous for his bass playing

The "Paganini of the Double Bass" wasn't famous for his bass playing? That's the first time I've heard that!

[AdaGio³]

Originally Posted by jguevin

The "Paganini of the Double Bass" wasn't famous for his bass playing? That's the first time I've heard that!

I believe hes talking on a larger scale. I can agree with Nick on that.

[mcnaire2004]

I read that Dragonetti met Beethoven 2 times. And Bottesini was verry verry famous for his bass playing. His love of opera as a conductor was verry famous.

Originally Posted by sibass89

Bottesini is actually not famous for his bass playing or his composing. He was a very famous conductor of his time. He conducted the premiere of Verdi's opera Aida. They were close friends and it's said that Verdi could not think of anybody else to conduct the premiere. Bottesini's compositions might possibly not be around today if it wasn't for the fame he achieved as an opera conductor.

This is true and many people don't realize it. In fact, Arturo Toscanini actually studied conducting with Bottesini at one point.

[sibass89]

Bottesini had a solo bass career and was unable to maintain it, thus why he became a conductor. It's actually very similar to Koussevitsky. While Koussevitsky was a great bass player of his time, he was much better known as a conductor than bass player.

[EFischer1]

I didn't realize the two are mutually exclusive. Call me crazy for even proposing this, but is it not possible that Bottesini and Koussevitsky were famous BOTH as conductors AND bassists?

[Illfavor]

I was moreso looking for some citable sources. "Talk Bass Forums" doesn't look too good on a bibliography.

[mcnaire2004]

Bottesini was a bassist and conductor. He still was a active soloist when he conducted. Only when he got up in the age (45-50) did he dramaticaly cut down his solo career. Though conducting brought in the money so he (after college) did more.

Koussevitsky did however stop his DB career. When he devoted hist time to conducting he is on record on saying "I don't have time for it". Which he didn't since he was a full time conductor. Bottesini was full time but Opera not symphony.

[sibass89]

It is very possible but both made their career as conductors and bassists. As of what I know, and ask any bassist who has done extensive research, Bottesini is in the music history books for conducting the debut of Aida. Both were phenominal bass players and used it as a career, but what made both of them famous was their conducting.

I am not for one second doubting that either were not virtuosos at the instrument. What I'm simply stating is that they made their careers and are remembered today because of their conducting, while somebody like Dragonetti lived his whole life as a performer.

[mcnaire2004]

Originally Posted by sibass89

It is very possible but both made their career as conductors and bassists. As of what I know, and ask any bassist who has done extensive research, Bottesini is in the music history books for conducting the debut of Aida. Both were phenominal bass players and used it as a career, but what made both of them famous was their conducting.

I am not for one second doubting that either were not virtuosos at the instrument. What I'm simply stating is that they made their careers and are remembered today because of their conducting, while somebody like Dragonetti lived his whole life as a performer.

I agree there. The money was in the conducting. Dragonetti (during his time) was the best thing since sliced bread. I read that a Zar or something from russia offered him a job several times but whoever (forgot) Dragonetti worked for kept upping his pay. Dragonetti (I think Bottesini was better) was one of the only famous bassist to realy make a career playing. I'd say that Joel Quarrington and Egar Meyer are the Bottesini's of today. I know Edgar doesn't even play in the italian style so don't hound me on that.

[Beto]

And what about the Berlioz/Bottesini relationship?

[reedo35]

Here's an interesting link that might help you, illfavor
http://www.bottesini.com/
It has links to actual letters between bottesini and some very important contacts.

[Illfavor]

THANK YOU reedo35.

[mcnaire2004]

Originally Posted by Beto

And what about the Berlioz/Bottesini relationship?

I read that Bottesini was a section player and was employed by Berlioz. And they soon became friends.