ii/V question

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally posted by David Kaczorowski


Obviously it depends on the context; how you resolve it, etc. Who was it that said," there's no wrong notes, only wrong resolutions?"

I don't know who originally said it, but I first heard it from Kenny Werner at a master class, and he proceeded to show how any note of the chromatic scale could be used at any time if resolved in a way that made sense to the ear. I've been a believer ever since.

But before you can hear how an E natural might work in a C minor progression, you gotta understand it's a C minor progression and E flat is diatonic.

Exactly. Theory can explain it (E over Dmin7b5 implies locrian #2, E over G7 in that progression implies a G7b9(13) sonority, etc...), but it all happens against the backdrop of the resolution that the ear EXPECTS to hear in that situation, and the tension created is often in the context of the substitute sound versus what you EXPECTED to hear. There's not a real solid way to describe that in words, but it's a very real phenomenon.

[Don Higdon]

Tristano was exemplifying 50 years ago what Werner said. Seems like whenever I use some abnormal or illegal concept in a phrase, Michael Moore will name 5 guys and when and where they used the idea.
On the other hand, it's ironic to read how important scales behind chords are. I had trouble selling this awhile back.

[Don Higdon]

According to Bob Brookmeyer, Bird himself came to Tristano to discuss his playing.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
But thinking back to the whole SCALE OR CHORD discussion, I don't think anybody's changed their position. Those that were talking about scales are still doing so, those that approach it harmonically still do so. And those that say "Can't we all just get along?" still say that.....


Well, I guess I'm officially one of the "scale" guys, but that's not the whole truth: I just play one on TV. In real life, many of the "Scale Guys" get on my nerves by dividing everything up so much. Everybody at the camps makes this big distinction between "Superlocrian" (dim/whole-tone) and "Diminished" (beginning with a half step). In reality, IMO, they're different shades of the same color, the only difference being that one has a #5 and no 6th, and the other has a natural 5 and 6. It's not like you have to start all over to learn the other one once you've learned the first one...it's just a variation.

Not to mention the fact that, if you are thinking about any of that stuff while you're playing, you're missing the point completely. PRACTICING, of course, is another matter.

And HUMBUG to all those "let's just get along guys...hell, that's no fun.


But let me add my voice to the chorus:
If all you know about Lennie Tristano is what you've heard from other cats or read somewhere, you owe it to yourself to check this guy out by listening to the music. And you'll find out how much bullsh*t all that talk about "cerebral" or "cold" or "non-swinging" is.

Word.