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10-10-2008, 01:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | Music VS Ego
I've always wanted to post a thread on this, but it's taken me some years to gather the balls to do so.
Obviously, the heading of " Music VS Ego " brings to mind some individuals on any instrument that use their visual and musical abilities to try to ' weave a musical spectical ' to thrill one and all, especially that inner ego of thier own that seems to need to be fed.
To be as clear as I can, I'll give out an example of how this subject has affected me and my work as a professional jazz bassist.
I've mentioned, in passing, in the forum , my concerns regarding this. A few years back, when in any musical setting I would at times, need to show the power I held over this ungodly huge and unweildly instrument. Especially when other bassists would show up, I would let the fireworks begin and shove the music out the door. I would abandon my musical taste and put on a show.....double-stopping, venturing into the thumb positions, way beyond my abilities and, of course, FLAYLING with my thumb, multi-stopping at the end of a tune.
One day, after hanging with some of my heroes, Bill Evans, Jim Hall, Red Mitchell etc., It dawned on me!! We got some MUSIC here!
When I rehearsed with Jim Hall, through my drunken stupor, I thought: Who the hell does this guy thinks he is, with his little, old antique Gibson amp??? Where the hell is his god damn chops? What were all these spaces between his musical statements, almost like a breath? What were all these gorgeous voicings coimg from his left hand? I FINALLY got it.
Does any of this stuff sound familiar? Does any of this open your eyes? Do you have any experiences regarding any of this? Most importantly, are some of your musical heros guilty of this? This stuff is prevelant in ALL musical genre. Try to listen to the MUSIC..........
PW
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Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz:
Last edited by Paul Warburton : 10-10-2008 at 01:26 PM.
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10-10-2008, 01:23 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Marvelous, Texas | | | Something I learned studying composition. It's a concept that Boulanger taught to Copland. When you write, at first you put all the notes on the page. Then slowly weed it out to keep only the one's you need. It's a concept that I have been striving to follow when I play. PW is, as usual, right on. Eventually, hopefully, we learn that the ego must come second to the music, and we keep only the notes we need. |
10-10-2008, 01:28 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: toronto canada | | | I hear you Paul. Your story reminds me of a story Don Thompson told me when he first heard Charlie Haden play. For me if it was a perfect world we would always just be focusing on the music but until we can be humble and confident in what we have to say on our instruments the ego will come into play
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Those who are in front, don't know how behind they are
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10-10-2008, 01:32 PM
|  | Regal User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orange County, CA | | i'm finally getting there...music has to breathe like the rest of us.
it's hard to stop my innate competitiveness with other players. i know what you mean when you mention busting out all the chops to establish your 'dominance.' it's a testosterone thing.  |
10-10-2008, 01:36 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Minnesota | | | My most important teacher and mentor always says (in his unique English) "All the technique in the world is just to play one note beautifully".
I always try to live my musical life this way. But man, when I feel under some kind pressure (like you said Paul, another bass player walks in or whatever) my reptile brain takes over and I start doing stupid stuff. It also happens when I consciously realize I'm sounding good.. "Hey - this solo is going great!" and suddenly its all in the crapper. |
10-10-2008, 01:38 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | Pagan
Quote:
Originally Posted by paganjack  i'm finally getting there...music has to breathe like the rest of us.
' it's a testosterone thing. | Betcha mines bigger than yours honey........ 
__________________
Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz: |
10-10-2008, 01:55 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NYC | | | The penny dropped for me when after I had spent a little time with my teacher, Joe Solomon. He's always saying "You can only sound like what you sound like." It doesn't matter who walks into the room or who's gonna be on that gig coming up, all I can sound like is what I sound like. You stay in the shed to slowly improve what you sound like, but nothing in the moment or short term is going to change that.
And then when you couple that with the concept (again, that Joe espouses) that you CAN get to your individual voice, that your individual voice DOES have something real and personal and true to say; then you stop measuring yourself against crap outside yourself and start concerning yourself with what best serves the music.
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10-10-2008, 02:25 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon | | | Playing to serve the music at the moment impresses those who I respect. Even if I did have the ability to do pyrotechnical displays I really have no need to anymore.
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John
When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water...
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10-10-2008, 02:32 PM
| | | | This thread is timely. I was just listening back today to a recording of the gig last night made on my Eiderol. I was trying to get a handle on the sound I was getting with my bass. Man I was playing all kinds of crap. Made it seem like I didn't know the tunes.
I've completely lost my way here.
I think I'll keep recording myself and listening to see how close to the music I can get to. |
10-10-2008, 02:36 PM
| | Inadvertent Microtonalist | | Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, ME | | | Nicely said all around.
It's pointless to try to impress anybody. Years ago I figured out that the cats I'd want to impress have all played with better bass-players than me anyway.
On the other hand, y'know, I just like to play a lot. I'm not trying to flame anybody; that's what I hear. I wish I could actually realize all that I hear but I'd rather try and fail then fail to try. God, was I stepping on it last night! **** me again!
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"We can give to those who listen to the essence the best of what we are. But to do that, at each stage we have to keep on cleaning the mirror." -- John Coltrane
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10-10-2008, 03:02 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago, IL | | | Last year I had the pleasure of being in a combo "coached" by Bobby Broom. I remember one day he asked me to play only roots for a chorus behind a soloist, so I did. When we finished, Bobby said "man I have been listening to you for three weeks and thats the best you've sounded" (ego hits the floor). I am thankful for that every day.
On a similar note, my teacher (Kelly Sill) and I discuss musical honesty in some form at every lesson . . . to him, there's no reason to play if you're not going to be honest -- I think that my inexperienced mind agrees.
Great thread Mr. Warburton . . . refreshing to hear some of the heavies around here discuss their path to musical honesty.
Last edited by frichter : 10-10-2008 at 03:11 PM.
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10-10-2008, 03:05 PM
| | Regal User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orange County, CA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Warburton Betcha mines bigger than yours honey........ | i'm afraid don't really follow. is it because i'm more of an electric player these days? i spent far more years on the upright than my recent foray into the far more portable realm if that was the jab. and i was agreeing with your statements, or so i thought... |
10-10-2008, 04:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Seattle, WA | | | I think Paul was making a joke. Why he called you honey, however, is open to interpretation.
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All I can be is myself.
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10-10-2008, 04:45 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui | | | Good thread, PW.
I think the second that one stops playing in the moment and starts playing "BASS", he's lost it. I've always felt best about a gig or recording when I knew enough to get out of my own damn way and let it happen. If I start thinking about inserting double stops or the bucket-o'-spit lick here or there, I might as well just stop the take and go outside and breathe until I can get the horse back in front of the cart.
If everything's right, the room and everything in it disappears, the bass disappears, and the actual manipulation of the bass isn't even a consideration. It's just about sound at that point. And those are the times when you might see me look at my watch after playing for ninety minutes, and look surprised, because it felt like about five. I love those times. |
10-10-2008, 04:58 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Studio City, CA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by quenoil My most important teacher and mentor always says (in his unique English) "All the technique in the world is just to play one note beautifully"... | Have been working on "pocket style", half step passing tones, approach to playing in a straight ahead jazz group that I've worked with for three years. The piano and sax player have noticed asking me if I was 'alright', the implication that I wasn't as busy as normal and therefore something might be wrong.
Its work, reducing to the essence, and it highlights the arpeggios or slap when they do occur.
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10-10-2008, 05:57 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | John
Quote:
Originally Posted by jallenbass Playing to serve the music at the moment impresses those who I respect. Even if I did have the ability to do pyrotechnical displays I really have no need to anymore. | Good to hear from you John.
Point: To show the power of ego, many players, including my own self at the time, don't have the abilities you speak of, but insist that it's part of the performance.
Your first statement is right on the $, and is so much more satisfying in terms of soul to soul musical communication. Damn! That sounded almost like something Red would say.
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Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz: |
10-10-2008, 06:05 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | Marcus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson If everything's right, the room and everything in it disappears, the bass disappears, and the actual manipulation of the bass isn't even a consideration. It's just about sound at that point. And those are the times when you might see me look at my watch after playing for ninety minutes, and look surprised, because it felt like about five. I love those times. | God damn perfect!
__________________
Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz: |
10-10-2008, 06:30 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | Phil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncletoad This thread is timely. I was just listening back today to a recording of the gig last night made on my Eiderol. I was trying to get a handle on the sound I was getting with my bass. Man I was playing all kinds of crap. Made it seem like I didn't know the tunes.
I've completely lost my way here.
I think I'll keep recording myself and listening to see how close to the music I can get to. | You haven't , AT ALL, lost your way because you know what's going on.
Listening to yourself on recordings is a hard lesson for any of us to internalise musically. I've walked out of the studio more times than I can remember, feeling an empty sense of fullfilment.
Payback time came to me one night when the great pianist, Art Lande walked into the club. I desparately wanted to work with him. I had been working on this concept for a bit, gatherd my balls together, beat down the ego animal in my mind, and pulled it off! I really wasn't aware of Art's presence in the club once I got into it. This led to a remark from Art, that we gotta play together.
__________________
Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz: |
10-10-2008, 06:39 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | | | Nathan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Parker I think Paul was making a joke. Why he called you honey, however, is open to interpretation. | God man, it's finally come to the point where I need an interpreter! Please follow me around on my forays and help clean up my **** Nathan.
__________________
Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz: |
10-10-2008, 06:56 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Warburton You haven't , AT ALL, lost your way because you know what's going on.
Listening to yourself on recordings is a hard lesson for any of us to internalise musically. | I suppose so. Regardless now that my bass is settled to a spot that makes me happy I can go about playing it and finding myself in it.
I believe I'll keep recording myself to stay aware of what I'm doing and remain focused. |  | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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