Oleo

Warwickthumb · #1 09-28-2006, 06:00 PM

I was looking at Oleo and trying to find out how in the world I should approach playing this piece. Any suggestions. Since its played at such a quick tempo I basicly played lead in notes betwen the changes. But the bass player in my recording is doing something diffrent. I think. Well just looking for some advise on this piece.

**Damon Rondeau** · #2 09-28-2006, 06:47 PM

I got rhythm,
I got rhythm,
I got rhythm,
Who could ask for anything more?

Warwickthumb · #3 09-28-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

I got rhythm,
I got rhythm,
I got rhythm,
Who could ask for anything more?

Well that's obviously a start.

FredH · #4 09-28-2006, 07:28 PM

| Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 | Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 |
| Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 | Bb7 | Eb7 | Eb-E-F-Eb | C7 |
| D7 | D7 | G7 | G7 | C7 | C7 | F7 | F7 |
| Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 | Bb7 | Eb7 | Eb-E-F-Eb | C7 |

The “changes” to Black Velvet lay over it nice too.

Warwickthumb · #5 09-28-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredH

| Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 | Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 |
| Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 | Bb7 | Eb7 | Eb-E-F-Eb | C7 |
| D7 | D7 | G7 | G7 | C7 | C7 | F7 | F7 |
| Bb7 | C7 | D7 | C7 | Bb7 | Eb7 | Eb-E-F-Eb | C7 |
The “changes” to Black Velvet lay over it nice too.

Well i have the chords out of the real book. Im just trying to figure out how to play it. Its looks like the easiest way I can pull it off is to use approach notes to connect the chords. But i listen to the recording and im not hear that.

Gornick · #6 09-28-2006, 08:45 PM

I hope Freds aren't the changes you are using... the Real Book might be closer.

"I Got Rhythm" by Gershwin iis the source of these changes. The study of "Rhythm Changes" is deep and complex, open to seemingly infinite variaton, yet dependant on a simple set of tonal centers. playing roots in 2 a good place to start. Approach notes in four after that then look at the numerous substition and get the harmony in your ears.

What you are hearing on record is a someone very well versed in this tune using all of his tools to play the changes and eveything the changes imply in that moment. Thus transcription would be a ultimate way to get into what this guy is doing.

**Damon Rondeau** · #7 09-28-2006, 08:53 PM

Sorry for my glib reply Warwick -- I guess I owe ya better than that.

Have you tried working the tune through using arpeggios? Play 1-3-5-7 on every chord and work it. Then do the same thing starting on 3. Keep working it until you feel a bit comfy and work through all the inversions. Do this a lot -- not so much "3 hours a day" kinda thing (but if you can do that -- hey, go for it) but more an "every day for a lot of days" kinda thing. It takes time. Start slow and work up the speed slowly. It's practice, not a concert.

Obviously you're not going to be creating lines with this method that you'd like to play when you're on the stand with Sonny Rollins. Instead it's going to take you to a deeper knowledge of the tune and it's going to get you hearing stuff you aren't hearing now. And, of course, in jazz the idea is to "hear the line, play the line" in real time. Ya gotta hear first. This method will get you hearing stuff.

FredH · #8 09-28-2006, 11:24 PM

Oops, this is what I should have written.

| BbM7 | Cm7 | Dm7 | Cm7 | BbM7 | Cm7 | Dm7 | Cm7 |
| BbM7 | Cm7 | Dm7 | Cm7 | BbM7 | Eb-E-F-- | F-D-G-D | C-G-F |
| D7 | D7 | G7 | G7 | C7 | C7 | F7 | F7 |
| BbM7 | Cm7 | Dm7 | Cm7 | BbM7 | Eb-E-F-- | F-D-G-D | C-G-F |

You can play 1-1-5-5 or arpeggios, mix it up.

But this is just one of the chord patterns that will fit. Use the standard chord vocing that you see in the RB. But it's great to have more than one trick, specially with the changes. Rhythm changes are like 12 bar blues, there's many things you can do with them, lot of room to explore. Folks will call "rhythm-changes in C", then hit it, lot of fun.
Black Velvet, Rhythm-a-ning, Anthropology and many more songs are based on this form. It's nice to be fluent with them. I'm sure that there's a discussion of the changes in most jazz theory books they would be a good place to start.

Gornick · #9 09-28-2006, 11:45 PM

Still ain't feeling those changes... use the Real Book.

That works for The Sesame Street Theme though, and that's something.

Warwickthumb · #10 09-29-2006, 03:16 AM

Ok now that im home from work I can refer back to my RB. I listened again, and im starting to pick up alittle bit of what hes doing. So lets look at the first few bars.
| Bbmaj7 G7 | C-7 F7 | Bbmaj7 G7 | C-7 F7 | So this song is basiclly smoking. I don't have much time to really throw anything in. So as i see it, I want to connect those chords together using a chromatic approach?

Warwickthumb · #11 09-29-2006, 03:17 AM

I noticed Anthropology follows those changes too. Kinda

oliebrice · #12 09-29-2006, 04:37 AM

As Gornick pointed out, these chords are whats known as 'rhythm changes', based on 'I Got Rhythm' by gershwin*. A lot of tunes have the same changes. Jazz musicans know a lot of variations on these changes, and use them interchangably, listening to each other to decide which to use where.
Learning to hear & play the arpeggios of the basic changes, and play them in all keys, would be a good place to start if you want to get to grips with rhythm changes.

*Thats debatable, I've read arguments that gershwin used the changes, that were already in common use by New Orleans musicians.

AZNBassist · #13 09-29-2006, 07:48 AM

Have you tried transcribing the bass players lines for Oleo (or other rhythm changes tunes?). IMHO and experience that would probably be the best place to start. I transcribed Paul Chambers line on Miles Davis's Relaxin' Oleo, and he plays the hippest line I've ever heard and for me, that was the best way I learned how to play the rhythm changes.

But I mean, not just for Oleo, or rhythm changes, but for a lot of tunes, I guess transcribing, or playing what the pros play is probably the best starting point to learn how to approach a tune, so then after you've learned and memorized their line note for note, you'll naturally start changing their line, playing a different note here or there, adding a skip or a drop, until it becomes part of your vocabulary.

thats just my 2 cents, I hope that helps.

hdiddy · #14 09-30-2006, 12:56 AM

As everybody said above, it's Rhythm Changes.... they work for many many songs, Anthropology, Oleo, Chasin' the Bird, Dexterity, Salt Peanuts, Steeplechase, etc. etc. To me, there's only one way to get it, and that's by practicing hard on it especially something like this that's kinda hard to grasp at first. Slow it down, use Band-in-a-Box with the changes from the Real Book if you have to, and keep playing chord tones as Damon says. Do til it oozes out of your pores and you can play it without batting an eyelash and then crank up the tempo some and do it all over again. IMO, when it's time to play it on stage, it might go by so fast that you won't have time to think about the next chord, so the only way is to make it a part of you so you don't have to think at all and just listen to music inside.

Personally, it's not the changes that gives me problems. I can play the head for Anthropology, but for some reason the head to Oleo seems really hard. I'll just have to sit down with a recording and hammer it out too.

Just hammer on it and keep hammering at it and then, as I say, eventually something'll happen.

shwashwa · #15 10-01-2006, 02:19 PM

another reason you may not be "hearing" the lines on the recording you have could be because the bass player may be playing very basic lines, on a substitute set of changes. there are many variations, as has been noted. you should practice them all, and practice "hearing" them all. then you may discover that the changes you're hearing are not all that close to the I-VI-II-V that's listed in the real book. there are many sources to look up these variations. for starters, over the 1st 4 bars, a common variation is F#7,B7/E7,A7/D7,G7/C7,F7/Bbmj7...and also that exact probression a tritone away, and both those progressions with the tritone subs thrown in on every other chord resulting in a chromatic root motion. that's a pretty common sub, and it could sound pretty "out" if you're not used to it. there are many others. try to figure out which changes are being used on the recording you have.

Warwickthumb · #16 10-02-2006, 05:17 AM

Well im starting to understand the bassline alot more now. What it took was understanding the progression. According to Ed Friedlands book "Building walking bass lines", the "I've got Rythem" progression is a popular progression in jazz. Some one here mentioned band in a box. Its a great tool if you ask me. Thanks for the help guys.

**Damon Rondeau** · #17 10-02-2006, 09:35 AM

...I think the classic take of this tune is the one "Bag's Groove", huh? Percy on bass and Horace Silver burning on piano. Miles and Sonny make as clean a statement of the head as you could want -- wish I could play it like that!

Pcocobass · #18 10-09-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZNBassist

But I mean, not just for Oleo, or rhythm changes, but for a lot of tunes, I guess transcribing, or playing what the pros play is probably the best starting point to learn how to approach a tune

Bingo.

musicman5string · #19 10-10-2006, 02:20 PM

Has anyone here ever transcribed the PC line on Oleo from "Relaxin"? What about Same Jones' on "Everybody Digs Bill Evans"?

WillBuckingham · #20 10-10-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Has anyone here ever transcribed the PC line on Oleo from "Relaxin"? What about Same Jones' on "Everybody Digs Bill Evans"?

I did the first few choruses from "Relazin'". That's where everyone lays out 'cept PC and Miles on the A sections. The bassline is pretty weird, but very interesting. I could scan it and pm it to you if you're interested, though it's pretty sloppy.

-Will