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10-12-2007, 01:57 AM
| | | | Ornette's "Lonley Woman"
Anybody know where there is a chart for it?...or at least know what Time Signature it is in...I have been working on it for years with no luck...
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10-12-2007, 02:33 PM
| | | | I wrote a lead sheet for it a while ago, pm me if you want a copy.
Sure I've seen it in some fakebook or other as well, but I can't remember which ... |
10-12-2007, 03:20 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NYC, Astoria | | | Lonely Woman is such a great tune, and it is a tough one to learn. |
10-12-2007, 04:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NYC | | | I don't think it's in a time signature, I'm pretty sure it's in a couple of different time signatures/tempos with a number of sections of the melody that are loosely phrased together.
You got Charlie's ostinato figure up top that the melody comes in over, there's a sort of pause and then the second "part" of the melody in a time stream that's a little quicker than the original statement. I'm only hip to the Ornette recording and the Allen/Haden/Motian recording, but they both seem to follow that format.
I haven't seen the Ornette tune in any fakebook, what I've seen is the Horace Silver LONELY WOMAN.
Which is a nice tune too.
In 4/4.
With a 3 bar bridge...
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10-12-2007, 05:46 PM
| | | | Interesting question about transcribing free music: If I was writing a paper about Ornette, I'd try and create an exact transcription from the record, try to quantify all the 'looseness' in it in terms of meter and tempo changes, etc., etc. If I was playing the tune with a band, I'd probably create a very different score - some kind of non-standard notation, lead sheet type of thing. I can't remember exactly how I transcribed the tune but I may have written it without barlines, for that floaty feeling - heh.
That Geri Allen "Etudes" is one of my favourite piano trio records - great version of Charlie's "Silence" on it too. |
10-12-2007, 05:59 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NYC | | | Yeah, pretty much no bar lines, just the phrases seperated to denote what gets played together....
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10-15-2007, 02:23 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, UK | | | I recently put together a band for a few gigs playing Ornette tunes, so transcribed a load of my favourites, including 'Lonely Woman'. As a major part of Ornette's approach involves doing away with the constraints of phrasing in traditional divisions of 4 or 8 bars, you are pretty much left with writing the tunes out without barlines, or writing a lead sheet that keeps changing time signature. Personally I think you should learn the tunes by ear, and that writing them down is of very limited value, but there was insufficiant time/money to just ask the band to do that...
Its also very instructive, in my opinion, to listen to Ornette playing his tunes on recordings over a long period of time (which in the case of Lonely Woman gives you almost 50 years!), which gives you an idea what he hears as the 'core melody', and what is simply the way he played it on the date in question... |
10-15-2007, 10:04 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: West Orange, NJ | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua  what I've seen is the Horace Silver LONELY WOMAN.
Which is a nice tune too. | I love that tune, and even though I'm not the hugest Pat Metheny fan, his version with Charlie and Higgins from "Rejoicing" is really beautiful. On acoustic guitar no less!
Oh yeah, FWIW I have two other versions of Ornette's Lonely Woman. One is from the ECM "Old And New Dreams" record, and it's in the same general neighborhood as the original (Charlie has his E string tuned down to D for the drone). The other is from the first "Quest" record with George Mraz and Al Foster. Their version is much different, and with Liebman on flute and with Al not playing the fast ride pattern, it's very evocative in it's own way.
Last edited by milomo : 10-15-2007 at 10:17 PM.
Reason: Forgot some stuff
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10-15-2007, 10:19 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: toronto canada | | | I have Ornettes chart for it that I got off of Pat Labarbera, there was an Ornette book of tunes in the work in the 70's that Ornette and Gunther Schuller were apparently putting together but it never got out there except for a few copies that got circulated, I have most of it photo copied somewhere in a box in at our new house, if anyone is looking for anything I'll see what I can do |
10-15-2007, 11:24 PM
|  | Rock'n Roll hasta morrir!(Rock'n Roll 'til I die!)
Seymour Duncan/Basslines SMB-5A Endorsing Artist | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cuernavaca 1 hr S Mexico City | | | I've got a book that I got back in the early '60's . . . all (or most) of the tunes on 1959's "The Shape of Jazz to Come" and "Change of the Century" . . . in score form. IIRC, the book was prepared from OC's own charts . . .
I'll look for it when I'm at home tomorrow morning (I'm at the studio, now) and scan . . . and post . . . the pages asap. |
10-16-2007, 03:26 AM
| | | | Cool. Either of you guys get that uploaded I will be very grateful to see that. |
10-16-2007, 04:29 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, UK | | | I'd be very curious to see those as well |
10-16-2007, 11:12 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Minnesota | | | Just wanted to throw in my request to please post that stuff if you guys are able! Thanks! |
10-17-2007, 10:33 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NYC | | | Please bear in mind legal issues when offering to post copyrighted material. Maybe you just want to personally exchange information?
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"It takes a pretty great drummer to be better than no drummer" -Chet Baker
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10-19-2007, 04:40 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles | | | My impression is that Gunther Schuller transcribed the published Ornette songbooks. Ornette's own notation is a lot less precise - there's some in the booklet that came with the LP Body Meta.
For you book collectors, there are two different Ornette songbooks published in the 1960s by MJQ music. One, A Collection of the Compositions of Ornette Coleman, has the tunes from Change of the Century and The Shape of Jazz to Come in outline scores, the other, A Collection of 26 Compositions, has all the originals Ornette recorded for Atlantic as leadsheets. Happy hunting! |
10-20-2007, 01:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Tx | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua Please bear in mind legal issues when offering to post copyrighted material. Maybe you just want to personally exchange information? | Very true, I played "Lonley Woman" durring an otherwise free set in a cafe, and the performance got a reveiw in the weekly paper and ASCAP was all over the the cafe owner the next week!
Last edited by damonsmith : 10-29-2007 at 11:18 PM.
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10-29-2007, 08:51 PM
| | | | Dang! what a coincidence. I just heard that Song in the Bar I went last night. Its coming again.... |
11-15-2007, 04:24 AM
| | | | I'd be interested in any chart available as well. I'm trying to get my band to play more ballads and this is an absolute must.
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