Sam Jones" Autumn Leaves transcribed?

JohnBarr · #1 03-14-2006, 07:30 AM

Does anyone know where I might find a transcription of Sam Jones lines on Autumn Leaves from Adderly's Something Else?

Not just the intro, I've got that. But I'm not very good at picking out the lines he uses in the song.
I like the feel of the first chorus with Miles and then he makes a nice rhythm change when the sax comes in.

I searched on line but couldn't find anything. Maybe it's in a book someplace?

Thanks,

John

TroyK · #2 03-14-2006, 08:33 AM

You know, John. I hate to say this because I hate it when people say it to me, but the real value in transcription is doing the work. I've suffered through that particular transcription myself and it was worth it. Sam Jones plays beautifully on that album. As a matter of fact, I need to go back to that record and invest in transcribing the other tracks too.

The Autumn Leaves track would be worth transcribing, 4 bars a week if you have to and then playing through a few other keys. I haven't learned to like or be good at the process yet, but I have been sold on it's value.

I have some written Paul Chambers transcriptions and they've not benefited me nearly as much as the things I suffered (not too strong of word) through copping myself.

Sorry to be a tool. I don't know of an available transcription. I didn't write it down when I did it on someone's advice.

Troy

Andy Allen · #3 03-14-2006, 09:32 AM

I agree with this - the transcribing bit, not that Troy's a Tool

.

I struggle with the process, but try to force myself to do it regularly. Sometimes it goes well, and sometimes I get terribly frustrated, but it is definitely paying off in ear training and in comprehension of the lines the greats used.

I write out my transcriptions - that way I can revisit them later and patch up some of the holes - as I get better at it I find I can always add/correct and I get both a more accurate transcription and an indication of my progress.

I have found some value in pre-transcribed publications, but you really only get half the benefit - other's well done transcriptions are good for studying style and approach, but you miss out on the actual transcribing process. I have "Walking with Paul Chambers", which I found useful, and there is a companion volume "Walking with Sam Jones" which I don't own, but may be of interest to you.

TroyK · #4 03-14-2006, 09:43 AM

Well, your transcription of Autumn Leaves could be in there. The sample didn't show me the reference recording, but I'd say odds are good. That is the Paul Chambers book I have. I use it for reading practice, which it is good for, but I think if I really wanted to learnd those lines, I'd be better off trying to get through the transcription myself.

For whatever it's worth, I do usually prefer Sam Jones' lines to Paul Chambers', although when Chambers was good he was great. I have some favorites of each.

Troy

JohnBarr · #5 03-14-2006, 10:16 AM

Thanks for the tip on the book. I didn't know about it and it's probably what I'm looking for.

And yeah, learning to hear the lines is a marvelous thing. I've done some simple rock stuff, riff-driven with the bass high in the mix. That's just easy guessing.
Jazz transcriptions are another level of difficulty. Just picking it out of the mix is a problem. I'll get better. In the mean time, I'll be glad to have this one.

thanks again,

John

TroyK · #6 03-14-2006, 10:31 AM

It is really hard. I bought some relatively inexpensive studio monitors that help a lot and I bought a decent set of head phones, which also help sometimes. I go back and forth from one to the other. It also helps to have something that will loop for you. There's software for this, but some CD players and most DVD players have a loop feature, whether you know it or now.

Also, pick transcription projects where the bass is more clear than others. Somethin' Else is not bad. A lot of the Miles Davis Workin', Walkin', Cookin', etc is pretty clear. Sonny Clark's "Cool Struttin'" is a very clear Paul Chambers recording. I'm currently getting into some of the studio 3 Sounds recordings. Piano trio with Andy Simpkins playing some things that I've just got to learn. Also, the 80's and 90's Ray Brown Trio stuff is very clear.

It is really hard. I vow to be good at it some day, but even as I'm bad at it, it's always worthwhile.

Good luck and enjoy that Sam Jones record.

Troy

oliebrice · #7 03-14-2006, 12:52 PM

This line is a great one to start transcribing from. Its easy to hear, he mostly plays quite simple though very beautiful stuff. It was the first bass line I transcribed, and bits of it accidentally pop up when ever I play Autumn Leaves.
I'd encourage you to try transcribing it yourself, even if its slow and tedious work.

Andy Allen · #8 03-14-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliebrice

...I'd encourage you to try transcribing it yourself, even if its slow and tedious work.

This is one of the good things about the "Walking in the footsteps of..." series of books, because they contain only a few (walking) choruses of the song - just enough to get the feel for the playing, and to understand the changes being used, but still allow plenty of scope for one's own transcriptions - either to check against, or to expand to the other choruses.

VTDB · #9 03-14-2006, 03:44 PM

This was also my first bassline transcription. I remember part of the reason I chose it was because of the clarity of the bass on that recording. Not as good as some but better than most of that time.

JohnBarr · #10 03-15-2006, 08:51 AM

Thanks guys.
I'll give it a shot. The book version I've learned is pretty stilted (well, it's not the book that's stilted, it's me) so mostly I want to get a feeling for what he's doing, how he's constructed ht lines, so I don't need it note for note.

John

TroyK · #11 03-15-2006, 09:48 AM

This is what I've coined "Coppin' a Feel", which I hope catches on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBarr

Thanks guys.
I'll give it a shot. The book version I've learned is pretty stilted (well, it's not the book that's stilted, it's me) so mostly I want to get a feeling for what he's doing, how he's constructed ht lines, so I don't need it note for note.

John

OrionManMatt · #12 03-15-2006, 08:37 PM

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scott_f/Jazz/Autumnsj.pdf

bassworks · #13 03-16-2006, 07:09 AM

The Autumn Leaves transcription is in my "Walking in the footsteps of Sam Jones" book along with 23 other lines.

Thanks for posting the links to Jamey Aebersold for the books!

Transcribing music is the best way to learn music there is.
Unfortunately it's also one of the most difficult!
I have seen incredible results from players using a combination of learning the lines from the books and then later working on their own transcriptions. The key is to immerse yourself in the music. Students who have learned/memorized the lines and played along with the original recordings A LOT have seen great results. As you practice the lines they get in "your ear" and you'll be able to recognize the sounds when you're doing your own transcriptions much more easily. Have fun!

Rob Gourlay

Books in the series:
Walking in the footsteps of Paul Chambers
Walking in the footsteps of Sam Jones
Walking in the footsteps of Doug Watkins

Available:
www.robgourlay.com
www.jazzbooks.com

I had thought of doing an Andy Simpkins books at some point....hmmmm

musicman5string · #14 03-27-2006, 07:57 PM

I think one of the best lines you can do, because it's clear as a bell, swings like a mutha, and is all ii-v-I's (which you can use the patterns from on every tune written) is Ray Brown's bass line on "Do Nothin Till You Hear From Me" on the duo record with none other than Duke Ellington called "This One's For Blanton". Not the intro thing where Ray's doing his tritone double stops; the walking line, which is only one chorus.

Perfect.

musicman5string · #15 03-27-2006, 07:59 PM

Also, if you're new at transcribing, I'd get a chart of the tune from a real book and use the chord changes as a guide. It makes it easier to get started.

Andy Allen · #16 03-27-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Also, if you're new at transcribing, I'd get a chart of the tune from a real book and use the chord changes as a guide. It makes it easier to get started.

+1 on that - I always find it easier to transcribe over a set of basic changes...it builds the transcription into some kind of form; otherwise it seems like just a string of notes. Once the transcription is mostly complete I usually go back and alter the changes so they match that particular version of the tune (or as best I can surmise it from the bass line).

Aaron Saunders · #17 03-27-2006, 09:07 PM

I'm very new to transcribing, and I've found that rather than looking for a chart, working out the root motion and basic function of the chords on a piano works much better. This way, you've already got your ears "warmed up" and kind of "tuned" to this recording. I've started doing this with an arrangement of "Kissing a Fool," which is full of really standard 2-5-1 and 2-5-1-4 cadences. Can't wait to dig into the bassline. I don't know who the bass player is on this one, but it's a Michael Buble release, and the studio always hires really nice playing cats for these tunes -- I can't count how many times I've seen guys like Brian Bromberg, RC, and Christian McBride credited on these kinds of releases.

bassbuddie · #18 04-21-2006, 07:09 AM

The first transcription I did was a Aebersold version of All the things you are. Because the bass is on the left side, you can ear it very clearly.
And Aebersold bass player are fine musicians.

Jason Hollar · #19 05-08-2006, 06:56 AM

Very cool!

Yes, this version of Autumn Leaves was also my "first" bass line transcription. Can't wait to dig out my old manuscript notebook and compare some of the lines...

I recall not being able to hear some notes clearly...wondering if Sam Jones was playing a super-hip Bb in his Am walking line...or if it was supposed to be a B natural in the minor scale...and just a little flat!? In any case, it hipped me to using a "flat 9" in my walking bass lines over a minor 7 flat 5 chord...

musicman5string · #20 05-08-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Hollar

Very cool!

I recall not being able to hear some notes clearly...wondering if Sam Jones was playing a super-hip Bb in his Am walking line...or if it was supposed to be a B natural in the minor scale...and just a little flat!? In any case, it hipped me to using a "flat 9" in my walking bass lines over a minor 7 flat 5 chord...

That's a great question; technically, the b9 is in the scale choice for a half diminished chord (locrian mode), so the Amin7b5 scale would be A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F,G,A. However, there are many examples of musicians using the natural 9 on a half diminished. It's called the Locrian #2.
Personally, I'd say I go 50/50 with which one I use; for example, on the tune "Minority", there's a natural 9 in the melody on the min7b5. It just sounds better on that tune.