Sam Jones Bass Line on Autumn Leaves?

Leroy La Qua · #1 10-22-2008, 02:55 AM

In the B section of 'Autumn Leaves' off the classic 'Somethin Else' album Sam Jones seems to ignore the Am7b5 chord and throughout the piece plays a D natural on the first beat supporting it with other tones that seem to suggest a D dominant seventh sound (for instance in the first chorus he plays D E F# A over Am7b5). I am not quite sure what he is doing here?
Is he just ignoring the Am7b5 and treating the first two chords as D7b9?

I haven't heard any other bass players approach that part of the tune in this way

Any help would be much appreciated.

AndreasH · #2 10-22-2008, 03:33 AM

I think I have that bassline transcribed somewhere but I think that is what he does. He's "Ignoring" the Am7b5 and just playing the D7. The most important movement in this II-V-I is the V-I, the Dominant that really wants become the Tonic. It is not really a "complex" thing to do, in fact he is making it more simple, but it changes whole mood of that section. He's just reharmonising a bit, like we all do, but jazz players always tend to add chords instead of taking some away. I'm pretty sure you could play Autumn Leaves with just Gm Cm and D(7) and it would sound great.

Ed Fuqua · #3 10-22-2008, 10:57 AM

I LOVE SAM JONES!!!!

:hyper :

damonsmith · #4 10-22-2008, 12:42 PM

I don't have it, so I can't hear it, but it could also have to do with the melodic integrity of his line. Often the chords are used as meeting points and sometimes people just play "through" them - they know they are there, but just don't stop in and the line resolves at a later chord change.
I relate it to driving down the freeway, you know you are passing certain cites but you don't stop there.
My guess is it has to do with where he is going in the next bar or what he did in the bar before.

Paul Warburton · #5 10-22-2008, 04:52 PM

Good explaination Damon. This is called displacement.
Here's to Sam!

Eli_Upright12 · #6 10-22-2008, 05:01 PM

Is it possible that it is a D7b9? so you would have the Eb from the b5 in the substituted chord.

damonsmith · #7 10-22-2008, 06:41 PM

Another way to look at it is a simple artistic choice. Like Robert Rauschenberg's Goat, Rauschenberg decided to lay the canvas on the floor and put a stuffed goat with a tire around on there. You don't have to like it but it cannot be denied that that the goat is there.
Sam obviously made the artistic choice to play D E F# & A and I am willing to bet it sounds better than the original version of the tune.
Trying to figure out why is little like worrying over how the goat is fixed to the canvas rather than accepting that the goat is there!

Paul Warburton · #8 10-22-2008, 06:45 PM

Thanks again Damon....you're saving me so much typing.
Most of all you're helping me with my sobriety.

Eli_Upright12 · #9 10-22-2008, 06:52 PM

gosh, just wondering, seems like something that would make sense to substitute.

damonsmith · #10 10-22-2008, 07:05 PM

No problem Paul! It does make sense, but also, a lot of jazz theory is after the fact - guys like Sam played some hip sh** they heard in the moment and years later a music professor put it in theory book.

Leroy La Qua · #11 10-23-2008, 08:22 PM

On a related note. Can anyone reccommend any other classic takes on 'Autumn Leaves' with great bass playing that I should check out?

Paul Warburton · #12 10-23-2008, 08:35 PM

Ferrante and Teicher. Not alotta great bass playing, but these guys made up for it.

Seach YOUTUBE.

.matthew e wengerd. · #13 10-24-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Ferrante and Teicher. Not alotta great bass playing, but these guys made up for it.

Seach YOUTUBE.

Holy Crap.

Peck_Time · #14 10-27-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy La Qua

On a related note. Can anyone reccommend any other classic takes on 'Autumn Leaves' with great bass playing that I should check out?

There's a version with Ron Carter, Paul Desmond, Chet Baker, Steve Gadd on CTI I think.

Bruce Lindfield · #15 10-27-2008, 04:25 AM

I think this question may arise from what I have experienced as 2 distinct "schools" of Jazz educators...?

So there are some teachers I have met who want to be analytical, look at every note and explain it precisely - while there are others who talk about how the notes aren't important as long as the momentum is there and the intensity and feeling..?

I think is further confused by being "post Free Jazz" - many players feel constrained by changes and see no need to stay within these confines - so, the kind of teachers I have studied with - some of them are clearly more sympathetic to Free playing - while others feel that Jazz is all about playing changes....?

Just a thought...?