Tunes Tunes Tunes!

[Pcocobass]

Okay guys.

I'm currently in a frenzy to learn tunes. My present method involves transcribing the chord changes from a classic recording, then recording six or seven choruses of the chord changes on my electric piano and playing along with my own pre-recorded comping. I'll play the melody, changes and solo on my bass and just loop it over and over. Then, I play playing the melody, walking lines and solo. I have found this to work pretty well for me.

I would like your input on these areas:

1. What do you find is the best method you have used to really learn a tune? (By learn it I mean interalize every chord change and the melody and be able to move it from one key to another effortlessly, without forgetting it)

2. I know this will be a long one but name a few must know tunes that you like (this doesn't have to be a complete tune list unless you want to; that would make for quite a long post for some of you )

3. Anything else you can add that is relevant or at least fun.

I thank you in advance for all your great input!

Pete

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Hey Pete - That sounds like a great plan. Learning to play the changes on the piano is a great way to internalize harmony, and has helped me learn just about every tune I know. You've probably already seen it, but the method I've been using for tune learning for both my students and myself is this. I also have an excel spreadsheet of about 250 tunes (Here's the first page) that I use to keep track of progress. If you want a copy of the whole list, I'd be happy to email you the excel file.

The important thing for me is the singing part. I firmly believe that the true test of whether or not I'm truly hearing something is my ability to sing it, whether it be the melody, the root motion, the harmonic extensions, etc. I sing pretty badly, but well enough to know when I'm "hearing in tune", if you know what I mean. Another thing that I find helpful is doing all of this stuff without any outside "help" like a playalong until I can solo over the changes in tune while hearing the changes only in my head. This can be really, really hard on some tunes, but I find that once I can do this, playing with other players who are laying down the harmony seems like a breeze. I also have a cheesy drum machine that I alternate with a metronome during all of this just to keep me awake.

Anyway, great thread topic! I look forward to hearing everyone's ideas and learning a few things along the way. Sounds like you're on the right path for sure - your playing sure reflects it.

[TGP]

1. Memorize the function of the chords and break them down to sections,
like knowing where the bridge starts functionally (II-V of IV for example). This is the only way to transpose to other keys, unless you have serious perfect pitch.

2. Standards - Autumn Leaves - Satin Doll - Take The A Train - Various Rhythm Changes Tunes - The Days of Wine and Roses - There Will Never Be Another You - How High The Moon - Stella By Starlight - All The Things You Are - Body And Soul ... pretty much all tunes in the old Real Book is a good place to start.

3. The thing I find about memorizing changes is that you have to learn and be able to hear many substitute changes to all these tunes because every pianist or guitarist has their own set of changes they like.
So you have to be flexible with your concept of the tune.

- Tom

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Hey Pete - That sounds like a great plan. Learning to play the changes on the piano is a great way to internalize harmony, and has helped me learn just about every tune I know. You've probably already seen it, but the method I've been using for tune learning for both my students and myself is this. I also have an excel spreadsheet of about 250 tunes (Here's the first page) that I use to keep track of progress. If you want a copy of the whole list, I'd be happy to email you the excel file.

Great! Please email me the file if you get a chance. That study method is exactly what I've been looking for.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

The important thing for me is the singing part. I firmly believe that the true test of whether or not I'm truly hearing something is my ability to sing it, whether it be the melody, the root motion, the harmonic extensions, etc. I sing pretty badly, but well enough to know when I'm "hearing in tune", if you know what I mean. Another thing that I find helpful is doing all of this stuff without any outside "help" like a playalong until I can solo over the changes in tune while hearing the changes only in my head. This can be really, really hard on some tunes, but I find that once I can do this, playing with other players who are laying down the harmony seems like a breeze. I also have a cheesy drum machine that I alternate with a metronome during all of this just to keep me awake.

Now that I think about it, when I'm playing it's easy to remember the changes if I can hear the melody in my head.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Anyway, great thread topic! I look forward to hearing everyone's ideas and learning a few things along the way. Sounds like you're on the right path for sure - your playing sure reflects it.

Thanks Chris! You da man.
P--

[lowendforlife]

Chris,
if you wouldn't mind, I'd sure like to have that list too. I feel that my tune knowledge is fairly comprehensive for my age, but there are definitely a few weak points. AND, moving to NYC in a month, I suppose I better have my s*** together in that regard. Thanks so much.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm happy to send the excel sheet out to anyone who can make use of it. If you want me to do this, please send me an email from your regular email address, since the TB email system doesn't support attachments. My regular email is bassfitzgerald@yahoo.com .

[hdiddy]

Although I'm a novice at all this stuff compared to you guys, I've found that learning tunes by nailing it down with a broken 2-feel first has gotten me really far. I don't know exactly why but 2-feel seems to really plant the structure in my ears. Then I follow up with all the other approaches (melody, walking 4, solo, whatever you like).

[damonsmith]

The only thing different I do is try to get as much of the harmony in double and triple stops onto the bass as I can and I bow all the arpeggios.

[Pcocobass]

Good stuff guys. Thanks!

Does anyone have something that has good jazz piano voicings for different chords (When I say voicings I mean not Rt M3 P5 b7 vanilla Elton John voicings)?

I would like to clean up my voicings when I accompany myself and really become fluent in comping on the piano. It seems to me this is an extremely important part of getting inside the changes and bringing my improvising/walking to the next level, not to mention learning tunes.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Pcocobass

Does anyone have something that has good jazz piano voicings for different chords (When I say voicings I mean not Rt M3 P5 b7 vanilla Elton John voicings)?

I would like to clean up my voicings when I accompany myself and really become fluent in comping on the piano. It seems to me this is an extremely important part of getting inside the changes and bringing my improvising/walking to the next level, not to mention learning tunes.

I agree.

[Marcus Johnson]

Pete, check out Jerry Grey's piano voicing stuff if you can find it. He's a Seattle area monster.

Mark Levine's books are great as well.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I agree.

Somehow I just knew you would have something Chris.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Mark Levine's books are great as well.

Marcus, I acutally have The Jazz Piano Book but I find it extremely difficult to motivate myself to work through it on my own. I know deep down I should take piano lessons.

[dylanjohnson]

Pete,
My old teacher at berkee, Whit Browne, used to say if he ran into me in the street someday, I should be able to sing root motion in any key to a song he asks for, while he sings the melody, and vice versa. in practice the idea was to play root motion while singing melody and the opposite. Usually it is more or less a guide tone relationship or extensions (great for teaching you to try and hear the basic chord function in between root and extension.....) I think you know all the tricks to the piano thing.... my experience has told me that whether you are stacking triads or building voicings from bottom up, it is really about shedding like anything else, in all keys till you get a flow....

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Pcocobass

Marcus, I acutally have The Jazz Piano Book but I find it extremely difficult to motivate myself to work through it on my own. I know deep down I should take piano lessons.

I hear ya. My mom was a great pianist and teacher, and she'd offer to teach me from time to time when I was a kid. But for me, it was always just bass, bass, bass... so I never took her up on it. Wish I had.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by dylanjohnson

it is really about shedding like anything else, in all keys till you get a flow....

ugh.... I know....sometimes I feel overwhelmed by all the sh*t I need to get together!

[Clay_Bass]

Off Topic (sorry): Pete you came into Todds master class on thursday at the Purchase camp right? I was right next to the door with the red hair.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Damned redheads. Nothing but trouble...

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Clay_Bass

Off Topic (sorry): Pete you came into Todds master class on thursday at the Purchase camp right? I was right next to the door with the red hair.

Yeah, I thought that was you. You started a thread about the camp a little while ago, right? I responded but I think too late.

Anyway, how was it? Todd's the man, no?

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by Pcocobass

ugh.... I know....sometimes I feel overwhelmed by all the sh*t I need to get together!

^^ This being the guy who's already pretty damn burnin' .