WOW Koussevitzky!!!

mcnaire2004 · #1 05-05-2006, 06:05 PM

I got the Koussevitzky today. I love it!! I have been playing through it (first movement) all day (and I will again tomorrow and the day after). It is one of the most beautiful pieces ever written. I think it is even up there with the Bottesini Concerto's. I have heard allot of recordings and as I looked over my music allot of people don't maintain tempo and turn 8ths into triplets and speed up at the ritards. Is this common practice for it? I plan to play it as written but I'm open to interpretation ideas. I would like to say again this isn't the hardest thing in the world but it is definitely one of the best.

PaulCannon · #2 05-05-2006, 06:36 PM

Are you talking about the two opening cadenzas? The ones that say "ad lib"?

TheGrayBassGuy · #3 05-05-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnaire2004

It is one of the most beautiful pieces ever written. I think it is even up there with the Bottesini Concerto's.

Ok, I love Bottesini's 2nd Concerto. It's my favorite piece for Double Bass, by far, and it's been my baby for the past year. But to claim that any piece of music written for bass is one of the most beautiful pieces ever written is ridiculous.

When compared to any piece by Beethoven, Bach, Stravinsky, etc. it doesn't stand a chance. They don't even stand much of a chance against most concertos. Just listen to Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto, or Saint-Saen's Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso, and you'll realize why bass concertos aren't the most celebrated in the classical world.

Sure the Bottesini and the Kouss are some great pieces of music, but they definitely are not on the list of most beautiful pieces ever written.

Sorry I can't give you any advice on the concerto, but when I saw that statement, I just had to say what was on my mind. Please just open up your ears to the rest of the world of classical music before you make your judgements on whats the most beautiful music around.

mcnaire2004 · #4 05-05-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

Are you talking about the two opening cadenzas? The ones that say "ad lib"?

Mine is the one edited by Davit Walter. I had no I dea those were cadenzas (there is no indication of it and no words "ad lib" in my version. I see the word "ten" on the C in measure 8 and stringendo on at the begining of measure 9. I checked the piano reduction and there is still no cadenza indication. This is interesting i'll take that to thought, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGrayBassGuy

Ok, I love Bottesini's 2nd Concerto. It's my favorite piece for Double Bass, by far, and it's been my baby for the past year. But to claim that any piece of music written for bass is one of the most beautiful pieces ever written is ridiculous.

When compared to any piece by Beethoven, Bach, Stravinsky, etc. it doesn't stand a chance. They don't even stand much of a chance against most concertos. Just listen to Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto, or Saint-Saen's Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso, and you'll realize why bass concertos aren't the most celebrated in the classical world.

Sure the Bottesini and the Kouss are some great pieces of music, but they definitely are not on the list of most beautiful pieces ever written.

Sorry I can't give you any advice on the concerto, but when I saw that statement, I just had to say what was on my mind. Please just open up your ears to the rest of the world of classical music before you make your judgements on whats the most beautiful music around.

I should have said one of the greatest Bass concerto's ever. Sorry for the confusion. I believe a bass revolution is within the next 30 years to bring the bass in the same competing level of the violin.

ClassicalBass · #5 05-05-2006, 06:57 PM

Yeah, my favorite concerto is Paganini's Concerto No. 1 in D (Opus 6). Unfortunately it would probably be virtually impossible on bass (unless your name is Edgar Meyer). I think the main theme is probably one of the single most amazing themes ever written.

Anyway, back to the topic. Besides the opening cadenza, which is labeled "Ad lib", I would recommend playing the rest in tempo. I slow down appropriately for the ritards, but once I pass them, rather than speed up back to tempo, I come back in at tempo immediately. Make it flow nice. As far as this piece being a bit easy, I disagree. Check out the second "alla breve" section in the first movement: that is hard. Speaking of which, in my edition, the Internation Music Company edition, there are a few errors in the 10th and 12th measures of that section. The 10th measure in the second alla breve section reads E# G C# B, but it should read E# G# C# B. And two measures later it reads A E# G# F(#), but it should read A D# G# F(#). Just make sure you check out these parts and make sure they are correct. The piano part should be able to verify it for you. If you're reading the Walter's edition, I think I read that he fixed the common errors, but make sure anyway.

mcnaire2004 · #6 05-05-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicalBass

Yeah, my favorite concerto is Paganini's Concerto No. 1 in D (Opus 6). Unfortunately it would probably be virtually impossible on bass (unless your name is Edgar Meyer). I think the main theme is probably one of the single most amazing themes ever written.

Anyway, back to the topic. Besides the opening cadenza, which is labeled "Ad lib", I would recommend playing the rest in tempo. I slow down appropriately for the ritards, but once I pass them, rather than speed up back to tempo, I come back in at tempo immediately. Make it flow nice. As far as this piece being a bit easy, I disagree. Check out the second "alla breve" section in the first movement: that is hard. Speaking of which, in my edition, the Internation Music Company edition, there are a few errors in the 10th and 12th measures of that section. The 10th measure in the second alla breve section reads E# G C# B, but it should read E# G# C# B. And two measures later it reads A E# G# F(#), but it should read A D# G# F(#). Just make sure you check out these parts and make sure they are correct. The piano part should be able to verify it for you. If you're reading the Walter's edition, I think I read that he fixed the common errors, but make sure anyway.

Thanks

mcnaire2004 · #7 05-05-2006, 07:08 PM

I have another question. In the 2 opening cadenzas what do the words "ten." and "stringendo" mean?

PaulCannon · #8 05-05-2006, 07:32 PM

Tenuto. Long, or full.

Stringendo. Speed up a bit.

mcnaire2004 · #9 05-05-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

Tenuto. Long, or full.

Stringendo. Speed up a bit.

Thank you

Kam · #10 05-05-2006, 08:31 PM

I wish I had learned off the Walter edition..the clef changes are in friendlier places and the typos are fixed. That and the print is just more clear! Inserting the cadenza in the third movement is interesting though...I think that might be taking editorial liberty too far, but that's just my opinion.

I just performed this piece in my undergrad recital (yesterday!), good luck!

PaulCannon · #11 05-06-2006, 11:06 AM

I don't like the cadenza being there, but I guess if you really wanted a cadenza, that's as good a place as any.

anthem274 · #12 05-06-2006, 11:20 AM

Mcnaire,

Just out of curiosity, weren't you working on the Bottesini 2 last week? Didn't you plan on working on the six Bach cello suites after you finished that?

anthem274 · #13 05-06-2006, 11:43 AM

Also, concerning beautiful music ever written, I would have to include Strauss's tone poems. All of them have monster bass parts and very catchy themes. I, personally, love Ein Heldenleben's opening them to "The Hero". I had the oppurtunity to see the Boston Symphony perform it and, well, it blew me away. This isn't to take away from Don Juan and Also Sprach Zarathustra. All of these pieces are incredible works.

One of the most "beautiful" pieces ever written is still Claire de Lune. That's a tough one to top as far as sheer beauty goes.

mcnaire2004 · #14 05-06-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthem274

Mcnaire,

Just out of curiosity, weren't you working on the Bottesini 2 last week? Didn't you plan on working on the six Bach cello suites after you finished that?

No I wont get Bottesini No.2 for like 6 months. I am working on No.1 though. I am practicing about 5 hours a day and I'm spending about 3 of those hours on the Bottesini. I wanted to get some thing so I don't here my self play the same thing for more than 3 hours a day. I havn't started on the Suites (though I do have them) the post about the Suites was basicaly just curiositiy about them. If you read my post about the Suites you'll notice I say that I havn't started them yet. Now I have probably 3 hours on Bottesini No.1 and about 2 on the Koussevitzky. The rest of my day is just sparadic playing. I got the Koussevitzky more as a change of pace. I fell in love with it after I played it (not after I heard it). The only real Concerto I fell in love with by hearing is Bottesini No. 1. I'll probably start Working on the Suites later this summer. Sorry that this post goes randomly back and forth. Thanks for your concern.

Cory Palmer · #15 05-06-2006, 12:55 PM

Hal Robinson's edition of the Kous is very good. He gives you a part with the markings he used when he won the principal bass position in Philly and a clean copy for your own markings.

I don't care for David Walter's editions of music. I have his edition of the Kous and of the Arpeggione. He does a lot of strange things that are very different from what the composer originally wrote. Same thing goes for Rodney Slatford's editions of Bottesini's music.

Cory Palmer · #16 05-06-2006, 01:03 PM

I think Hal still sells all his editions through his company BASS IS. You can get a catalog by e-mailing him at Phillybass@aol.com.

PaulCannon · #17 05-06-2006, 01:08 PM

I have the Walter editions of the Koussevitzky and the Dragonetti. I only bought them because the piano reduction is for orchestral tuning. I would recommend using the International edition if you're trying to learn the solo.

mcnaire2004 · #18 05-06-2006, 01:51 PM

I wish I would have knew that before I got it. I also have the Walter edition of the Dragonetti. My Bottesini is Oscar G. Zimmerman edition. and of coarse my Reverie is of Fred Zimmerman. My Suites "Bach for Bass" is transcribed by Robert Rohe.

Peter Ferretti · #19 06-05-2006, 11:52 AM

I wouldn't learn to play the suites from the Rohe edition for two reasons.

A. Based on the music your playing you should be able to play it at pitch well enough, so go for that.

B. The key choices in the Rohe edition are really awkward. Why on earth would you play the 1st suite in D. The 5th suite makes sence if you want to make it easier, but I always looked at the difficulty of that suite as part of the beauty? just my opinion. Why don't you post some soundclips of you playing, I'm curious.

anthem274 · #20 06-05-2006, 01:34 PM

I bought the Peter's Edition transcribed by Sterling.

I transpose the first suite up a fifth, the second up an octave, and I play the third as written. I like the edition because they do alot of the work for you, but some of the original details are lost. For that reason, I bought the IMC version for cello and made changes to my Peter's.