The Bassist as Rock Star

RunngDog · #1 10-01-2006, 09:36 AM

I recently made a statement to someone that one of Jaco Pastorius's claims to fame was that he was the first bassist to become a true "rock star" as a bassist (I'm using the term "rock star" here in the generic sense of bringing front & center flamboyance, excitement, etc., to a band, not in reference to the specific musical genre). I said that before Jaco, most bassists were just backup guys, not the stars of the band (think Wyman, Entwistle, Redding). Those bassists that were more front & center (e.g., McCarney, Bruce) were so because they were singers, not because they were bassists.

After I said this, of course, I wondered if it was actually true (and suspected it probably wasn't). So that's the question I want to pose to TB: before Jaco's stint with Weather Report in the mid-70's, what other bassists might realisitically qualify as "rock stars," (again, as bassists more than as vocalists). Chris Squire? Stanley Clarke? Tony Levin?

Cristo · #2 10-01-2006, 10:54 AM

Probably not many, depending of course on exactly how you define rock star.

I would say Geddy Lee and Flea qualify for that title.

Manc_Chris · #3 10-01-2006, 10:55 AM

Well, Geddy is the obvious guy here, but, really depends on you quantifying 'rock star'?

For instance - outside of the hard core bass fraternity, even Jaco is not that well known. (Hate to say, but it's true).

For me, JJ Burnel was a rock star. He was cool, had a sound that demanded attention, sometimes fronted the band, and had some wicked stage moves.

johnpaulbass · #4 10-01-2006, 12:38 PM

yes man .. you've pointed out a quite interesting thing... bassist were very underrated ... if we point out the "rokstar status" that you've mention (lookin' the 60s e 70s era..)

I can qualify John Paul Jones (just to name one. but I can say the same thing about Glover and Butler...) in this cathegory because he was very underestimated in the "rock star" point of view.. but it's in front of our eyes .. and most of all EARS.. what AMAZING and fundamental contribution he gave to Zeppelin music. (of course I don't want take away nothin' from the extremly talented other members of the band).

RunngDog · #5 10-01-2006, 12:43 PM

In this case, I'm defining "rock star" the way Manc_Chris does in his post, in terms of coolness, flamboyance, stage moves, etc. The "rock star" is the band member with the most presence on the stage, the band member that fans (and not just bass-playing fans) are there to see. No question that during the period Jaco was with Weather Report, he was the "rock star" in that band.

Again, I'm looking for bassists who were bassists first and foremost, not lead singers. So Geddy doesn't really count (and Jack Bruce played the "bass-player-as-lead-singer-in-a-power-trio" role years before Geddy.

And I'm looking for "rock star" bassists who pre-date Jaco - after Jaco, there were plenty of bass-player rock stars, from Sid Vicious to Mike Dirnt. Flea falls into that category, but he was maybe 12 or 13 when Jaco was playing with Weather Report. Burnel wasn't quite that young, but I don't think he really came onto the scene until after Jaco either.

When I went back and looked over my CD collection, one name that did jump out at me was Bootsy Collins - he had the sort of stage presence I'm talking about with Funkadelic, and he was leaving Funkadelic to start the Rubber Band just about the time Jaco was joining Weather Report.

RunngDog · #6 10-01-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnpaulbass

I can qualify John Paul Jones (just to name one. but I can say the same thing about Glover and Butler...) in this cathegory because he was very underestimated in the "rock star" point of view.. but it's in front of our eyes .. and most of all EARS..

JPJ was/is great (as were Entwistle and lots of others), but again I'd argue that his contribution to the band was much more "in front of" our ears than our eyes. Before starting this thread, I actually went back and watched my Led Zeppelin DVD (a great DVD for those who don't own it), just to confirm my recollection as a stage act, Led Zeppelin was really a Page/Plant show. JPJ's there, but he and Bonham are very much in the background.

20db pad · #7 10-01-2006, 01:17 PM

I can't recall where I've read it or heard it, but the "Jaco as rock star" label has been out and around for some time. I'd credit it to Bob Bobbing or Bill Milkowski.

There, the point was that Jaco was the first "Jazz" player whose recognition rose to that which we'd call rock star status. In his heyday, Jaco attracted crowds that would wait for him after gigs, wowed audiences with his performances and onstage presence, and had far more recognition than most of his contemporaries. This sort of attention was and is more associated with rock stars than Jazz/Fusion figures.

I was too young to fully understand Jaco's impact at the time, but stories abound about him - even to this day, especially in Florida. Jaco struck a chord in a lot of people's hearts and minds, and then a second, darker chapter followed. He was a once-in-a-lifetime talent, which is fascinating, and then descended into the figure he presented when his illness and addictions got the better of him. This has its own schadenfreude attached to it as well.

So, I'd reckon that my point is that there was only one Jaco. For a guy before Jaco who had an exceptional command of the instrument, wasn't a lead vocalist, and did live an extreme lifestyle, one could easily suggest James Jamerson. He was all those things, but it isn't the same.

Dr. Cheese · #8 10-01-2006, 01:51 PM

What about Chris Squire? He was really upfront in the mix and was an equal to the other members of Yes without being the lead singer. In funk, Larry graham and Bootsy were bassist front men well before Jaco became a legend.

D.E.C. · #9 10-01-2006, 02:01 PM

You have to consider players like Gene Simmons and Nikki Sixx in this category. Definitely not virtuosos, but they do deserve the "Rock Star" label. You have to examine the total package, which also includes a heavy dose of 'attitude'.

Foamy · #10 10-01-2006, 02:51 PM

+1 on Gene Simmons
Maaaybe we'd have to include John Entwistle - nah, no maybe about it.

**Mark Wilson** · #11 10-01-2006, 03:30 PM

Entwistle definitely gets my vote. The man was the epitome of a rock star.

-Mark

PurplePurple · #12 10-01-2006, 03:40 PM

Bootsy Collins?

johnpaulbass · #13 10-01-2006, 03:43 PM

RunngDog:

jep man.. I agree with you .. (matter of fact is exactly what I wanted to say.. zep was a page/plant thing) .. and in fact.. it's a shame.. because JPJ is an awsome musician.. but.. you must give a credit to the fact that JPJ as a person was quite shy and didn't want to take the role of the frontman.

(that's waht I wanted to know)...

I'd give a +1 to what Mark Wilson said... I'd give to Entwistle my vote too.

stitchbass · #14 10-01-2006, 04:29 PM

the crazy Les Claypool is defo a rockstar bassist hahaha, what a strange individual

Manc_Chris · #15 10-01-2006, 05:21 PM

Another one - Phil Lynott. The epitome of 'rock star' if ever ...

barkatozz · #16 10-01-2006, 05:43 PM

How about Larry Graham?

Dr. Cheese · #17 10-01-2006, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barkatozz

How about Larry Graham?

+1,000,000

SlavaF · #18 10-01-2006, 06:38 PM

I know you don't want any lead singers here, but I can't stand it when a "rock star" thread has no mention of Lemmy

I'd say he was the "rock star" in Hawkwind (if there was one) in the early 70's, before forming Motorhead. The guy got kicked out of a psychedelic rock band for doing too many drugs... they don't get any more rock-starish than that

And talented or not, a huge +1 to Gene Simmons

jerry · #19 10-01-2006, 08:43 PM

Andy Fraser in Free had great stage presence! Besides writing almost half the material, he soloed! In the Cream days Jack Bruce was as much of a star/name as Clapton. We also had cats like Tim Bogert who was taking the back seat to nobody. Stanley Clarke had the stage magic too, when I started seeing him in 74-75, you could tell he was a audience favorite. Jaco was definitely a rock star though, I used to see Weather Report pre-Jaco, and when he joined, they stared selling out "rock" size halls.

BrandonBass · #20 10-02-2006, 11:02 AM

dude, nikki sixx is the epitome of rockstar bassist if any...he may not be the most technical but he has the stage presence and pppl pay to see him. also ppl like gene simons, and sid vicious and of course flea

i definitely wouldnt call entwistle a rockstar, hes more a musician