BASSISTS AND ETHNICITY

[jmcdan3]

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination. I was wondering why many feel that African-Americans play better bass (Jamerson, Wooten, Miller, Chambers, Graham) on these boards and in the media. Take for instance South Park (a very bad example and prejudiced) when the character "token" was asked to play bass. He replied that he couldnt and the white kids said "he was black and was born for it." Is this fact justified??? I have observed that the most dominant bassists tend to be African-American while the most dominant guitarists tend to be Caucasian. I know obviously that bassists such as Jaco Pastorius, Flea, Jeff Berlin, Jack Bruce etc...are a huge exception. I suppose that it depends on the musical genre. Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians? This is merely opinion and I realize that I will be shot down for this thread.

[Phalex]

Hmmmm...... Where'd I leave that 10 foot pole??

[Dr. Cheese]

Pop music in America and the West largely comes out of Black culture, either African American or elsewhere as in the case of reggae. Since African music is very rythmn based, it shouldn't be a surprise that African descended people are prominent as rythmn section players like bassists.

As for a lack of Black guitarists, that is simply another stereotype. There have been dozens of very influential r&b, jazz, blues, and rock Black guitarists. As far as I know, all of the reggae and Afropop guitarists are Black.

[tmw]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination. I know obviously that bassists such as Jaco Pastorius, Flea, Jeff Berlin, Jack Bruce etc...are a huge exception.

Why do you note these players as exceptions? Unless you know their inspiration for playing, what music they grew up listening to, etc. Why would they be exceptions, as opposed to musicians?

Just pondering the point of the question/thread more than anything.

[rockwarnick]

Im just going to go ahead and say it. Yea i feel that african-americans have a better feel for groove. Dont know why. Most white people just cant feel it.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians?

No.

[jmcdan3]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Hmmmm...... Where'd I leave that 10 foot pole??

I realize that I am gonna get that a lot. Its just an opinion and what I have gathered from other bassists, television, and books. I do not feel that this opinion is fully justified. I tend to believe that music transcends these racial barriers and it really should NEVER matter what ethnicity you are. If you are a great musician...then you are a great musician. I am only asking if anyone else has noticed this trend lately in the media and on the dreaded boards.

[D.A.R.K.]

perhaps it can be attributed (to a certain degree) to a culture that largely handed down its' history through group participation, chant and rythm as opposed to written word.
or, perhaps these impressions are just the stupidity of listening to popular culture.

[jmcdan3]

Originally Posted by Dr. Cheese

Pop music in America and the West largely comes out of Black culture, either African American or elsewhere as in the case of reggae. Since African music is very rythmn based, it shouldn't be a surprise that African descended people are prominent as rythmn section players like bassists.

As for a lack of Black guitarists, that is simply another stereotype. There have been dozens of very influential r&b, jazz, blues, and rock Black guitarists. As far as I know, all of the reggae and Afropop guitarists are Black.

Thank you for that. I agree that most popular music has tremendous roots in Africa-in particular, the west. Most of these forms are strong in rhythm and call and response. It is not at all surprising that the concept of groove and feel would be a bit stronger in someone of Africa descent. How could this be and why?

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by rockwarnick

Im just going to go ahead and say it. Yea i feel that african-americans have a better feel for groove. Dont know why. Most white people just cant feel it.

Dude, I don't know if you're african-american, european-american, asian-american, mexican-american, martian-american, or what, but that's an awfully racist thing to say.

[palm grease]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

I was wondering why many feel that African-Americans play better bass (Jamerson, Wooten, Miller, Chambers, Graham) on these boards and in the media.

who on "these boards"? and what media?... comedy central?... the onion???

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

Take for instance South Park (a very bad example and prejudiced) when the character "token" was asked to play bass. He replied that he couldnt and the white kids said "he was black and was born for it." Is this fact justified???

if it's a bad example then why refer to it?
trey parker and matt stone have this much influence over you? so much, in fact, that you really need to ask if their satirical cartoon scripts are factually justified?

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

I have observed that the most dominant bassists tend to be African-American while the most dominant guitarists tend to be Caucasian.

your observation skills are quite lacking! you poor poor person!

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians?

uhhh no.





where is the ignorant smiley?

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination. I was wondering why many feel that African-Americans play better bass (Jamerson, Wooten, Miller, Chambers, Graham) on these boards and in the media. Take for instance South Park (a very bad example and prejudiced) when the character "token" was asked to play bass. He replied that he couldnt and the white kids said "he was black and was born for it." Is this fact justified??? I have observed that the most dominant bassists tend to be African-American while the most dominant guitarists tend to be Caucasian. I know obviously that bassists such as Jaco Pastorius, Flea, Jeff Berlin, Jack Bruce etc...are a huge exception. I suppose that it depends on the musical genre. Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians? This is merely opinion and I realize that I will be shot down for this thread.

You named 4 white people and 5 black people and are calling the white people exceptions - huge exceptions no less.

I don't think it's true that any one of these guys plays better than any of the others, they all play using different styles in different styles of music.

What about all the great black guitar players too? Holy crap, like BB King, Albert King, Jimi, Muddy Waters, Charlie Christian, I can go on and on for a long time.

[Blueszilla]

These kinds of stereotypes are nothing new, so I kind of disagree that this is recent trend. I would add that, it isn't necessarily true, and that discussing it as though it were reinforces the stereotype. No 'great' AA guitarists? C'mon, maybe Hendrix? No white bassists' with feel? Can you say Rocco? It's an urban myth to a degree, but most myths have some truths in their origins. Someone said look at the cultures for these origins and that is a good take, IMO. But we don't need to perpetuate the stereotypes because they certainly don't seem as valid as they once might have, as we have many examples now that reject them.

My $0.02.

[jmcdan3]

where is the ignorant smiley?[/quote]




FRIENDLY THREAD....ONLY A MATTER OF OPINION. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS TOPIC AND/OR WHAT IS PORTRAYED IN THE MEDIA.IT DOES NOT INFLUENCE MY BELIEFS ON THE MATTER. I AM ONLY PROVIDING A DISCUSSION THAT IS NOT INTENDED TO MAKE ANYONE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE RESPONSES THAT DO NOT NEGATIVELY SHOOT ANYONE DOWN.

[Tony G]

Somebody better tell bassists like Rocco Prestia that they don't have a good feel for the groove because they aren't black.....

[palm grease]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

Its just an opinion and what I have gathered from other bassists, television, and books.

may i ask what book your reading that says "African Americans are better bass players then Non-African Americans"?????

pls provide a link!

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by Blueszilla

These kinds of stereotypes are nothing new, so I kind of disagree that this is recent trend. I would add that, it isn't necessarily true, and that discussing it as though it were reinforces the stereotype. No 'great' AA guitarists? C'mon, maybe Hendrix? No white bassists' with feel? Can you say Rocco? It's an urban myth to a degree, but most myths have some truths in their origins. Someone said look at the cultures for these origins and that is a good take, IMO. But we don't need to perpetuate the stereotypes because they certainly don't seem as valid as they once might have, as we have many examples now that reject them.

My $0.02.

+1, and it looks like I was beaten to the punch.

[Blueszilla]

Another thing, 'better' bass or guitar is not defined the same for everybody, pretty subjective, so the argument is moot even before it starts, IMHO.

[rakirksey]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination.

Starting any thread like this is sort of asking for it. This is the same sentiment as ... I'm not racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. I have [fill in minority] friends.

Either way, ... there are good musicians and there are bad musicians. I think it comes down to what you grow up listening too along with natural talent. If you grow up listening to western classical music and you try to play funk ... it's going to sound a bit square.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by jmcdan3

...Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians? This is merely opinion and I realize that I will be shot down for this thread.

Taking this to the "non-stellar" level, I went to a high school that was 95% black in the 80's. We had a killer music program that included two jazz bands, a marching band, symphonic orchestra, concert bands, etc...

Of the 4 years I was there, 3 of those years had myself and another white guy manning the bass chair in both jazz bands.

So, in my experience, ethnicity took a back seat (really bad pun - sorry!!!) to hard work and diligent practice.