Are Bassists less conservative than guitarists

[papadesophie]

Seems to me that Bassists (huge generalisation) are more open to new gear designs / ideas than guitarists. Take amplification: Guitarists almost universally worship the rule of the Tube. Amplification designs and sounds are generally rooted in the 50s. Bassists appear to have embraced the transistor (albeit not universally).
Axe design: whilst undoubtedly the names of Fender, Musicman, Rickenbacker etc predominate in the bassists arsenal, there are far more serious name bass brands gracing the stages of the stars and sessioneers than guitar brands.
Of course this could be for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the sheer weight of numbers of guitarists over bassists, meaning that the established designs simply swamp out the new, or it could just be that I'm right??

What prompted me to draw this conclusion? - Well I was checking out the Warmoth showcase store for a Jazz body and a new Tele body (oh yeah, I think of myself as a guitarist - ergo conservative, being mutated into a bassist currently), and noticed that if you want a tele body you have a huge choice of 'classic' finishes, with only a tiny variation in pickup configuration, but if you want a classic looking (ie, sunburst / or solid colour) jazz body with stock pickup configuration, you can whistle!!

I doubt that anyone here has any particular reason to care about this, or has even given it much thought, but it interested me to see what others might think.

And before everyone says 'huge generalisation buddy' yes I know, but I'm talking about Bassists / Guitarists as a body of people. Not entities which really exist as such, but for the purpose of discussion.....

[Hawaii Islander]

I have absolutely no idea who is more conservative or less. I would like to think bassists are open minded and creative. At least, I try to be.

About the tube versus solid state statement, I fall into the "(albeit not universally)" category. Solid state amps are OK and can be useful, however, I prefer tube bass amps over solid state. It suites the style of music I play better than solid state. Plus, I'm old(er) My first amp was a Fender Tube 1/2 stack Bassman 50 + 1x15 cab bought new in 1973. Like I said, I'm old(er)

[JimmyM]

It has nothing to do with conservative. It has to do with what works. If new concepts worked better for guitar than the old concepts, guitarists would use them. It just so happens that these newer designs work well for bass, so more bassists use them.

[papadesophie]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

It has nothing to do with conservative. It has to do with what works. If new concepts worked better for guitar than the old concepts, guitarists would use them. It just so happens that these newer designs work well for bass, so more bassists use them.

I don't know that's true. I reckon that if you give a bunch of guitarists the choice of playing through a 59 Les Paul and a marshall plexi, or a Yamaha SG2000, and an Diezel stack, a lot more than half would choose the former. Give a bassist the choice of a 59 P Bass and, 1973 Fender Bassman 50, or a Pedulla MVP and an Eden head and Cab, it would be a lot more of an even split.
I guess my point is almost illustrated by your argument in fact. New concepts don't necessarily fit with guitarists ideas because a guitarist's idea of good tone hasn't changed that much in the last 30 years

[JimmyM]

And why hasn't it changed in 30 years? Because it hasn't -improved- in 30 years. Who the heck wouldn't rather play a 59 Paul and Plexi over a Yamaha and Diezel? I've never even heard of Diezel.

Innovation doesn't always equal improvement.

[papadesophie]

I rest my case!

[Unrepresented]

I disagree with your premise.

Guitars have changed. Floyd Rose locking Trem bridges are integrated into the market solidly, 7 strings had a surge in popularity 10 years ago, BC Rich is still in business...

As for the solid state v. tube debate a lot of the difference between guitarists and bassists on that issue is because of the distortion aspect. A clean solid state sound to my ears isn't that far off from tube. The difference between the two is much more noticible when using distortion, and since distortion is featured prominantly in rock music, solid state will continue to be the poor man's entry.

In genres where distortion isn't typically needed -- jazz for instance -- guitarists are willing to pick up solid state stuff, Roland is big in jazz guitar circles, for instance. Bassists use distortion MUCH less frequently, and as a result the weight of having an amplifier with a good distorted tone is going to be much lower.

And ultimately though, look at how many people on this forum still play through Fender products or boutiques that are intended to mimic them. It's the vaaaaaaaaaaaast majority. There are some who've picked up something new, but that's in a huge community board, if you're involved in a similar guitar oriented forum, I suspect your findings would be similar.

[stealth51]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

And why hasn't it changed in 30 years? Because it hasn't -improved- in 30 years. Who the heck wouldn't rather play a 59 Paul and Plexi over a Yamaha and Diezel? I've never even heard of Diezel.

Innovation doesn't always equal improvement.

+1

[papadesophie]

Originally Posted by stealth51

+1

No innovation = innovation. Sticking to a 30 year old principal because received wisdom suggests that it is 'best' is what I interpret as conservatism. And to dismiss a brand of amp because you haven't heard of it is, IMHO, ULTRA conservative!

Unrepresented however; you make powerful case, but I stand by my argument. Of course new concepts have been adopted, but my point is that this is not by the vast majority. New bass concepts have been much more widely accepted. I reckon if we were to run 2 polls in parallel fora (plural of forum??) for guitarists and bassists along the lines described in my original post, it would prove my point. Maybe not as conclusively as my grossly generalised post title but maybe.....

I may just do that- no cheating my experiment now!!

[Tnavis]

Musicians are one of the few groups who embrace the originial technology as being superior. Given the choice between a 1950's Magnavox television and a Sony plasma HDTV, I don't care how warm the vacuum tubes of the Magnavox make the picture look.

The market for vintage gear exists because people are trying to get "that sound". If you want to sound like Page, or Hendrix, or Clapton, many start by using the same tools that they did. I would imagine that younger musicians look more towards the gear of the artists that influence them, and as they get older, and more nostalgic, todays solid state gear will be as highly sought after as tube/analog gear is now.

Or not. Who knows?

And I still don't like Precision Basses.

[The Lurker]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

And why hasn't it changed in 30 years? Because it hasn't -improved- in 30 years. Who the heck wouldn't rather play a 59 Paul and Plexi over a Yamaha and Diezel? I've never even heard of Diezel.

Innovation doesn't always equal improvement.

+1. Brand recognition probably has a lot to do with it.
Perhaps, rather, a blind listening test, where you ask someone to evaluate a series of sounds without knowing which gear made what sound, or who's playing it.

Yeah, there's also been a lot of what you could call evolutionary dead-ends-- the Ampeg scroll basses, the Ovation Magnum, 80s MIDI basses, the Dan Armstrong interchangeable-electronics basses, most of the Gibson basses, etc., that have become cult items, or dead-end features like ric-o-sound or preamps with sliders instead of knobs. Why do we still have the cables and jacks we do, instead of XLR connections on everything? Ditto the stereo guitar thing eddie van halen used briefly. Technological development in basses could have gone in many ways.

You could also make the case that most bass sounds haven't changed much since the 60s or 70s-- look at the number of people these days who consciously try and imitate all the reggae, blues, R&B, funk, etc stuff that developed back then.

Heck, they were making basses with elaborate woods and uber-complicated onboard electronics back in the '70s-- when you look at it that way, there really isn't that much difference between an old Alembic Series I and a ritter just off the bench.

[genocide roach]

i never understood why people want to sound like someone else. but whatever floats their boat i guess
~gR~

[NKUSigEp]

Originally Posted by papadesophie

Seems to me that Bassists (huge generalisation) are more open to new gear designs / ideas than guitarists. Take amplification: Guitarists almost universally worship the rule of the Tube. Amplification designs and sounds are generally rooted in the 50s. Bassists appear to have embraced the transistor (albeit not universally).
Axe design: whilst undoubtedly the names of Fender, Musicman, Rickenbacker etc predominate in the bassists arsenal, there are far more serious name bass brands gracing the stages of the stars and sessioneers than guitar brands.
Of course this could be for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the sheer weight of numbers of guitarists over bassists, meaning that the established designs simply swamp out the new, or it could just be that I'm right??

What prompted me to draw this conclusion? - Well I was checking out the Warmoth showcase store for a Jazz body and a new Tele body (oh yeah, I think of myself as a guitarist - ergo conservative, being mutated into a bassist currently), and noticed that if you want a tele body you have a huge choice of 'classic' finishes, with only a tiny variation in pickup configuration, but if you want a classic looking (ie, sunburst / or solid colour) jazz body with stock pickup configuration, you can whistle!!

I doubt that anyone here has any particular reason to care about this, or has even given it much thought, but it interested me to see what others might think.

And before everyone says 'huge generalisation buddy' yes I know, but I'm talking about Bassists / Guitarists as a body of people. Not entities which really exist as such, but for the purpose of discussion.....

I'd say you're half right. But there's a HUGE following of solid-state playing guitarists. Mostly of the metal and hard rock persuasion. The solid state Randalls and Marshalls' distortion is so brutal, heavy, and tight that you couldn't dream of duplicating it with a tube amp. Even Mesa has turned to at least making a solid-state rectifier an option on their Dual and Triple Rec heads.

But if I think "guitarist", I still picture a guy with a Strat or an LP through a Mesa or Marshall stack.

[alfredpunkjazz]

Honestly, in my experience, it's very rare to see bass players using boutique or "weird" equipment... But I think that's because over here, in México, we don't have any acces to those beautifull basses... But geetar players do have acces, because they are actually very curious.

[iamlowsound]

As a guitarist on the side, I play a custom strat (because I love the look and got a killer deal on it) and a Godin. Strat looks old school, but nothing about the guitar is, it has crazy active electronics and humbuckers and the godin isn't exactly vintage either. I am also dying for an ENGL amp and I would love to have a parker fly. On the other hand, I play an Fbass through a yorkville, so I am not a vintage guy either way.

lowsound

[bassbrock]

OP,

While again a generalization, I think you are on to something. My observations have been quite similar. Heck, you can even see this type of stuff and meet guitards of that attitude in just about any Guitar Center in the country.

Most guitar players I've met fit your description and observation. Brand and tubes are everything for them. Fender Strat + Marshall JCM/DSL something. Les Paul + Fender Reverb Deluxe. And on and on. Almost every guitar player I know (about a dozen) all have very similar guitars and tube amp setups and even mostly the same Boss pedals. I think it is especially true for the blues/classic rock 'sect' of guitar players. It is less true with the death metal, hard rock and punk rock crowds.

Most bass players I've met, myself included, are indeed more open to less known and less popular brands of equipment, even the cheap stuff (check the SX RondoMusic threads!). Regardless of genre. I know a few who will only use Fender basses... but their amp, pedal, and other equipment selections are ridiculous in variation.

[funkalicious101]

Is the market for custom lutheir boutique guitars as big as it is far basses?

(and i dont mean Gibson/Fender custom shop)

[papadesophie]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

Is the market for custom lutheir boutique guitars as big as it is far basses?

(and i dont mean Gibson/Fender custom shop)

I'm sure it is as big if not bigger, but as a proportion of the total guitar market I don't think it would be as big the same measure of the bass market. (If that makes sense) By that I mean that if boutique guitars make up 2% of the total guitar market (huge guess OK?) then boutique basses might be more like 10% (another ridiculous guess!). The point being that there are a huge number of boutique / luthier guitar specialists, but the total guitar market is that much bigger and generally more conservative.

Incidentally, I've yet to find a suitable guitar forum on which to run my established v new ish poll, but you may have seen the poll I've done with the P Bass V the status and I've been quite surprised as to many bassists on this forum slot into that conservative way of thinking. And that is not to imply any negative kind of judgment, because in my own poll I've chosen the P over the status. (Like I think I implied in my original post, I fall into the tonal conservative camp!)

[Tnavis]

Another thing that popped into my head is that it seems guitarists are more open to changing and modding their gear, while bassists are less open to it. Nobody bats an eye when a guitarist talks about changing out the pickups in a Strat, but I mentioned that I was changing out my stock Stingray pickup for a Bartolini and I got flamed. Granted, this was on the Ernie Ball boards, but I've encountered this from other players as well.

[papadesophie]

well I ran a poll on a guitarist site, giving a choice of parker fly and Les Paul, and guess what: 60:40 so far, compared with 70:30 or so for the classic bass option.
Of course it's not over yet, but so far it seems I was pretty much wrong...