Black bassists and "their sound"

[Kwesi]

If this thread is inappropriate let me know and I'll axe it.

I've been thinking about this topic virtually since I started playing bass and it's always been interesting that the trend seems so so consistent. The trend I'm speaking of is the similar style that many black bass players seem to employ. It's pretty much indescribable so I'll put up some videos in a sec. It's not the typical "black people are funky" dealie because damn near anyone with a decent sense of rhythm can be funky (some need more work than others). I'm talking about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weN7DkrLjEU

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2amM2Ph7Q6s

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=pLzK...eature=related

I think you get the picture I'm trying to paint. That hyper-percussive, completely groove oriented, diggin' real deep kind of sound. Now I'm not saying only black people sound like this or that only black people can sound like this but for it to be so widespread is an interesting phenomenon to me.

You could say that as black people we tend to listen to certain types of music that might influence our playing style and that would probably be a valid argument but take me for example. I've been playing bass for 4 years and I've been listening to music for 6. I started listening to all kinds of stuff from Weird Al to Aaron Copeland, from Ludacris to Dream Theater, from Metallica to Reel Big Fish. When the radio was on it was probably on some top 40s rock station. I didn't really get into music that highlighted or really relied on the bass (funk, R&B, jazz, etc) until I started playing. Even then it would be 5 minutes before a jazz/funk gig and I'd be in the corner headbobbin' to Synthetic Breed and Aya Hirano. Despite this fact, when I'm just putzing around on my bass I sound like these guys (albeit not nearly as skillful). I have no idea where it came from AT ALL. Even when I started playing bass I jumped headlong into fusion jazz (it's the single largest playlist on my iPod) so I figure that if anything I'd sound more like one of those cats but nope, lol.

Like I said, it's not limited to black people. Vail Johnson and Uriah Duffy are two players that play this way and it's just natural to them. And black people don't always play like this. Victor Bailey and Gerald Veasley have their own voices. But the similarity and spread of it is just fascinating to me.

Thoughts?

[Super Dwarf]

i have noticed that most black people pay attention to rhythms more then white people, remember the dave chappelle skit with john mayer. white people dancing can be really funny, i took video dancing at my cousins wedding WOW it was funny, though he did have good rhythm.

[Deluge Of Sound]

...No Bootsy?

I'm revoking your race card.


Seriously, though, I'm not sure you can draw anything from that other than the fact that these dudes play similarly and happen to be black. IMO, its more of a genre thing than a race thing.

[Arrachion]

"Get as sick as you want, just give me a ******* bass line!"

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

...No Bootsy?

I'm revoking your race card.


Seriously, though, I'm not sure you can draw anything from that other than the fact that these dudes play similarly and happen to be black. IMO, its more of a genre thing than a race thing.

This honestly never occurred to me, lol.

[PhiDeck]

Correlation does not imply causality (nor does it preclude it).

[poor_gear_whore]

I tend to believe it is more of a cultural thing than a race thing. Though it is not hard to say that certain traits and instinctive behavior are hereditary. Also people tend to gravitate towards what is comfortable and acceptable according to societal norms, even if that means fulfilling stereotypes. Anyway, in before the lock.

[thomashawk]

I've heard it all relates to how well and how often your parent(s) danced with you on their hips through infancy.

[thomashawk]

But I also think the genre thing applies as well.

[Muaguana]

I can kind of see what you mean, but I've heard white bassists who play the same style who sound like that as well - similar "digging in," similar rhythmic accents, note lengths (downbeat is strong/held for most of measure with other notes serving as fills.) Like Deluge Of Sound said, it's likely more of a genre thing. Heck, I could put videos of three white, old-school rock n roll bassists up and could easily say that it demonstrates "white sound." But throw Tony Levin in there and... well, it all goes to hell.

Edit: And you know why Victor Bailey doesn't sound like these guys? He doesn't play the same style of music.

[JimmyM]

ya, i agree it's a genre thing. it's got very little to do with race imho.

[air_leech]

Donald Duck Dunn, Rocco, Hamish Stuart...three exceptions to the rule off the top of my head (mind you I don't listen much to the genre of music in the links you provided so I focused on the old school R&B and Funk fields).

I also think it's more of a genre thing and history of these genres which is responsible for the pop culture beliefs that skin tone denotes level of grooveines of a bass player.

I guess in Jazz and Blues saying a white guy sounds like a black guy will continue to be a common compliment because these music styles were pioneered by musicians of African ancestry.

[sonic assassin]

was it lars ulrich's dad that said he played drums like a white guy and full intended it to be an insult?

[behndy]

well, if it helps your theory at all Kwesi i'm about as lily-white as you can get and i can't do HALF the stuff Meshell, Dyson or Walter Jones can do. but i do know lot's of other pale ass bass players that can kill slapping.

and FWIW, i find nothing offensive at all about this thread. it's an interesting question, but i do think it's more of a what genre you grew up loving or wanting to do thing.

[behndy]

lol.... and oddly enough, if you launch all three videos pretty close together, the grooves actually sync up ok. at least they did for me.

[Plays_For_Dog]

Soul... That's the secret incredient.

[Dr. Cheese]

That's just a case of people with a similar style playing in a similar way.

[HeadyVan Halen]

Playing expierence and background noise..Most black kids grow up with soul/R & B/Gospel in the background and it gets into your system. White kids hear different things in the background (insert whoever here Van Halen, RHCP, Motorhead, Pantera). and it just naturally rubs off after a while kinda of like your favorite food.

I've been playing in a Black Gospel Church for 5 years now, and when I go back and listen to 'White Worship Music' it's just so, so, bland...I don't know dude?

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

ya, i agree it's a genre thing. it's got very little to do with race imho.

That scooped Modern tone (and M'shell is a bit of an exception) is real popular in the modern Urban Gospel scene where your much more likely to see an MTD, Roscoe, or Smith then a J bass. I personally prefer a bit more going on in the mids, but its almost whats expected in that genre. I imagine at the gospel studio dates they would frown at you if you walked in with a P or J. I was at the David Dyson, Damion Erskine thing at Namm. I must admit about a day at NAMM is all I can take before all the slap pyrotechnicians begin to sound a like. For the record that gave no hint as to Erskines ability, if you get a chance to check out his Standards CD do it.

[HeadyVan Halen]

Another thing is 'improvisation' is highly, highly encouraged in Black music more than white I would say. In 5 years no one has ever said it's a "C# diminished" or whatever chord..it's always 'play this' (plays note), or 'do that thing again on the bass'...
Most Gospel is played, how we say it, "in the black keys" in other words sharps/flats..may have something to do with it also. Aren't many open C chords.