Carol Kaye Controversey Solved?

[Phil Smith]

I was reading the Soapbox page of Bass Player, the December 2002 issue, written by Bob Babbitt called, "Who Played Bass?". This article, IMO, explains why Carol Kaye would indicate that she played bass on a particular track even the the official credit is given to another player, notably James Jamerson. Here's an excerpt:

Now, I want to say that every record I have claimed to play on I really feel in my heart and soul that I played on. When I hear these songs I can visualize the session an remember certain things that happened in the studio. I did only a couple of sessions for Smokey Robinson and I remember "Tears of a Clown" as being one of them, yet Jamerson gets credit.

It is hard when you hear that other bass players are getting credit for some of your work. But, if those few songs in question were re-cuts or overdubs, I guess I'll have to live with that. The fact that there were no credits on those records hurt everyone. But as a New York bassist once said to me, "I know what records I played on".

[Woodchuck]

When this whole fiasco was brought up, I thought about the possiblity of re-cuts, but in the beginning, it seemed like that the idea of it never occurred to her.

[LiquidMidnight]

Exactly what I always thoughts. I do believe that Carol probaly played on some of the tracks but they were either recut or she was playing on demo's.

Still, you would think you know what you sound like. Carol Kaye is a pick player and James Jamerson is fingerstyle player who use to play on dead strings. Don't you think there would be enough difference, just in tone not to mistake who played?

[jazzbo]

Courtesy of Allan Slutsky, (who at this point would be quite the authority), from http://www.bassland.net/jamerson.html

May 1995

In light of half-a-dozen magazine articles by Carol Kaye in the last few years and the distress they caused the Jamerson family, I find it necessary to state the following information about the ongoing debate. I've remained silent for the last five years but I think it's time to step forward with some hard facts. I hope it helps to clear up the issue.



Allan (Dr. Licks) Slutsky


"Who Played "I Was Made to Love" Her?
The Carol Kaye-James Jamerson Enigma"


He was dead, buried, and forgotten. Even 99% of the bass players in the world had no idea who he was. But in the last seven years, his life and music have been center stage amidst an explosion of newspaper and magazine articles (more than 350 worldwide), a long overdue biography, and an upcoming film documentary. The Fender custom shop has made a signature bass in his name, flatwound strings have begun selling again, and in the last two years, the recording company that had employed him for a decade and a half finally gave him official recognition in the liner notes of 3 recent historical CD box sets.

After three decades of obscurity, musicians and music lovers throughout the world were discovering the holy grail of the bass world-James Jamerson, the tormented genius whose earthquake-heavy bass lines fueled the Motown hit machine through the '60s and early '70s. Even though it was posthumous, he was finally getting his long overdue recognition.

And everyone lived happily ever after, right? Not exactly. As Jamerson rose in prominence, his reputation was given a serious challenge through the media by another icon of the bass, Carol Kaye. Well aware of her claims through the years about her recording sessions with the Supremes, Four Tops, Stevie Wonder, and other stars in Berry Gordy's stable, I contacted her in 1987 when I first began my research for STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN: The Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson. This was done out of the highest regard for Carol's monumental achievements and contributions to the bass, and popular music in general. My intention was to find out first-hand what she had played on so I could avoid stepping on her toes.

I had expected her to name a few significant hits but was floored when she laid claim to "Bernadette", "Reach Out", "Baby Love", "I Was Made to Love Her", "Ain't No Mountain High Enough", "Dancing In the Streets", "Can't Help Myself", and dozens of others Motown classics-in short, the majority of James Jamerson's signature performances.

At that point I decided to rethink the entire project. If I could substantiate Carol's allegations, I would write the book about her instead of Jamerson. I expected my research to turn up pros and cons for each player's position, along with the usual grey areas you can expect when researching multiple claims to the same material. Instead, what I found was overwhelmingly conclusive evidence that James Jamerson played the tunes in question. Here are the facts that my research turned up:

1) The songwriting-production team of Holland-Dozier-Holland attested to the fact that James Jamerson played on almost every one of their productions, and they never allowed others to produce songs that they had written. Brian Holland signed a notarized affidavit categorically stating that "Bernadette", "Reach Out", "Can't Help Myself", "Keep Me Hanging On", "Standing in the Shadows of Love", "Reflections", "Baby Love", "Back In My Arms Again", "Come See About Me", and "Can't Hurry Love", (all tunes claimed by Carol) were in fact, played by James Jamerson. Most damning was his statement that he had never even heard of Carol Kaye.

2) Smokey Robinson who wrote or produced probably 30-40 percent of Motown's biggest hits also denied that she had any major role in the Motown story, and had no part at all on the songs in question.

3) The performance credit that Carol has pursued with the greatest tenacity over the years is the bass part on Stevie Wonder's "I Was Made to Love Her". Hank Cosby who co-wrote, produced it, and who, in his own words, "was there every step of the way from the writing of the song to the day the 45's were shipped", vehemently denied any participation by Carol Kaye on this recording. Cosby added, "Fifty percent of the song was James Jamerson's bass line. No one played like that but Jamerson." Cosby also signed an affidavit similar to Brian Holland's attesting to Jamerson's performance.

Continued....

[jazzbo]

..... Continued

*********Point-Counterpoint: Carol's Side of the Story**********


1) The Politics of Race and Gender-Carol contends that Motown was afraid to admit that a white female bassist was the driving force behind some of their biggest hits. They wanted to push a black male agenda.

There are two faults with this argument. First of all, when it came to musicians, Motown had no racial or gender bias. They were all faceless cogs to them. Regardless of whether they were black, white, female, male, or Martian, they weren't going to get any recognition-period! It was a star driven phenomena and the company never gave the slightest thought to publicizing background figures. In addition, the Motown studio band (which was called the Funk Brothers) was not exclusively black. Guitarists Joe Messina and Dennis Coffey, percussionist Jack Brokensha, arranger Dave Van dePitte, and bassist Bob Babbit, who also played quite a few important Motown dates, were all white.

2) Improvised vs. Written Parts - Her claim to "Reach Out" is based upon her contention that "discerning musicians can hear that the parts weren't improvised. It was a written part". James Jamerson regularly improvised and sight read parts of that complexity. Part of his genius was that he could take a written part and make it sound as if it was his. Regardless of this argument, I have a photocopy of the original Union contract from the "Reach Out" session. It's dated July 6, 1966 (the year of the tune's release), it lists James Jamerson as the bassist (for which he received the princely sum of $61.00), and Detroit's Hitsville studio is indicated as the place where it was recorded. Carol herself admits that she never recorded in Detroit.

3) The West Coast Connection-Carol maintains that a great deal of Motown's output was being cut on the West Coast in Los Angeles.

That is true, but don't forget that Motown also had acts like Tony Martin, James Darren, and Soupy Sales signed to their label. There were also various Broadway and Las Vegas style orchestrated albums produced like the the Temptations in a Mellow Mood and The Four Tops on Broadway, not to mention the constant demand for filler material on albums. There was plenty of work to go around and Detroit could not possibly handle all of it. Frank Wilson who produced hits for Motown in both Detroit and Los Angeles supports Carol's claim that she worked numerous sessions for the company. However, he qualifies it by stating, "They used her a lot but not on the hard core R&B stuff. That stuff came out of Detroit. They didn't like her sound for R&B because she played with a pick. It didn't have that fat round sound that Jamerson got with his fingers."

4) "I Was Made to Love Her"-According to Carol, this tune was recorded at Armin Steiner's studio and she recalls "I didn't like the final written riff that I played high up in unison with the horns. You can also hear where I was scuffling a bit with open strings a couple of times".

Now it starts to get complicated. First of all, the detailed studio log that Carol kept does not support her position. The log lists every date she played from 1963-1971. She painstakingly listed artists, studios, record labels, contractors and arrangers on each date. "I Was Made to Love Her" was released in 1967 which means it was cut in '66 or '67. There are no listings for a session at Steiner's or a Stevie Wonder date during that time span.

As far as "scuffling" around, the performance is perfect. Don't trust my ears. Trust the auditory ability of one of the world's most highly regarded bassists-lifelong Jamerson devotee, Anthony Jackson. He couldn't hear what she was talking about either. The "final written riff played in unison with the horns" argument also is problematic. "I Was Made To Love Her" is rhythm section and strings. There are no horns on that record.

5) Ask My Friends-Carol asked me to talk to Gene Page, Jerry Steinholtz, Earl Palmer, and some of the other studio musicians who played the West Coast Motown sessions with her. She felt they would back up her story.

I didn't just call a few of them. I talked to every one she recommended, naming the songs in question and telling them about Carol's claims. Arranger Gene Page immediately burst out laughing and said, "She said that? No way . . . never. That stuff was all Jamerson". Percussionist Steinholtz remembered playing Motown sessions with Carol but that was as much as he could remember. The closest I got to her viewpoint was with veteran R&B session drummer Earl Palmer who bristled at my suggestion that perhaps they played the demo versions of the songs in question. "Hell no!", he countered. "We weren't playing demos. We were playing hits". The only problem was that he also couldn't remember any song titles.

Now we all know that studio musicians live by their reputations, so remembering hits that they played on is of paramount importance. If they had even remembered one title-just one-I would have had something to pursue, but as it stood, they gave me no material at all to back up her story. Back in Detroit, In stark contrast to my California research, the Funk Brothers remembered everything- song titles, intricate details, times, dates, and fellow musicians on the session and it all revolved around James Jamerson.

6) The Great Cover-Up-Carol has accused many of Motown's producers of conducting illegal non-union, under scale sessions, and in efforts to cover their backs, they refuse to admit working with her.

First of all, if the sessions were illegal, why was a union musician like Carol playing them in direct violation of union rules? Secondly, the Motown story is full of lawsuits and union problems but that doesn't exactly strike fear in their hearts. It's just business as usual. James Jamerson certainly played under scale Motown sessions at different times. Why do these same producers admit working with him?

7) Demos That Became Hits-Amidst the thousand of studio dates in Carol's logs, quite a few are marked as demos and many of those were with Motown. According to her, the company misled the musicians because many of these sessions became the actual records.

Carol may have a legitimate grievance in this instance but not in regard to the songs in question. When the recent Platinum CD Box set The Hitsville Singles Collection was produced two years ago, most of the songs in question were pulled from the vaults and re-mastered. Motown's filing system lists whether the songs were recorded in Detroit or Los Angeles (and in a few instances in New York) on each storage box. All the disputed songs were listed as being cut in Detroit.

During the sixties and seventies, Carol Kaye contributed more to popular music than most musicians, including myself, could hope to equal in several lifetimes. By all accounts of people who know her well, she is also a wonderful, warm, loving person. I have no desire in any way to hurt her or ruin her reputation, but as James Jamerson's biographer, I do have a responsibility to him. James died a brokenhearted alcoholic, tortured by the lack of recognition for his his part in the Motown story. It took the world thirty years to find out and appreciate exactly what he did and I intend to further that recognition to the best of my abilities. If that includes defending him in the face of unfounded attacks on his life's work, so be it.

I'm still open to any information which would change the story and support Carol Kaye's version but so far, I've yet to find a single shred of evidence. I'd even go as far as to say that I wouldn't doubt that somewhere out there, there is some evidence that would support her claims on a few disputed songs.

She has my humblest apologies for the few that I may have missed. But when you're talking about "Bernadette", "Reach Out", "Baby Love", "I Was Made to Love Her", "Ain't No Mountain High Enough", "Dancing In the Streets", "Can't Help Myself", Standing In The Shadows of Love", "You Keep Me Hangin' On", and dozens of others . . . Sorry Carol. That magical legacy belongs to someone else.

[jazzbo]

... continued

MOTOWN'S WEST COAST RECORDING ACTIVITIES AND WHAT MOTOWN RECORDINGS CAROL DID PLAY ON


Motown opened an office in LA in the somewhere in the early to mid-sixties. There was a great deal of Motown recording activity out there and Carol Kaye was right in the middle of it. But the type of recording being done out there and the type of tracks Carol played on needs to be defined. The material is as follows:

a)Motown had a lot of artists signed to their label that were exclusively recorded on the West Coast. They included names like Bobby Darren, Tony Martin, Paul Peterson (of the Donna Reed Show), Soupy Sales, the Lewis Sisters, etc. Carol worked on many of these sessions.

b)Brenda Holloway hits like "Every Little Bit Hurts" and "You've Made Me So Very Happy," and "When I'm Gone" were exclusively cut by Carol and the West Coast musicians. Brenda never recorded in Detroit.

c)A lot of the glitzier more show-biz style albums like The Four Tops On Broadway, The Temptations In A Mellow Mood, The Supremes at Disneyland, and in particular, the Soundtrack from the TV Special TCB (Takin' Care of Business) with the Temptations and the Supremes which were all cut by Carol and the West Coast crew. TCB is of particular importance to the dispute because that may be the root of many of Carol's claims and the resultant confusion over bass credits. TCB featured a lot of medley's of famous Motown hits performed by the Temps and Supremes including "Stop In The Name of Love," "You Keep Me Hangin' On," "Baby Love," "I Hear A Symphony," "Come See About Me," "Get Ready," and others. Maurice King, Motown's music supervisor for live shows, was involved with that soundtrack and told me Carol was definitely on that soundtrack. So Carol did play those tracks’ BUT THEY WERE REMAKES OF THE ORIGINAL HITS FOR A SYNDICATED TV SHOW. THEY WERE NOT THE ORIGINAL SINGLES AND THEY WERE ALL PLAYED DIFFERENTLY AND ARRANGED DIFFERENTLY FROM THE ORIGINAL SINGLES.

d)There was lot's of demo and B-side work was also done in LA often for their frontline stars. Motown was first and foremost a publishing company. Every time they had a hit, they recut it several times with other acts to increase their Jobete royalties. (Jobete was Motown's publishing arm.) This gave rise to tracks like Smokey Robinson cutting "Beauty Is Only Skin Deep" or The Temps and Supremes cutting "I Second That Emotion" and "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" (from the album Diana Ross Join The Temptations & The Supremes). Both of the last two titles were also claimed by Carol, so again, this may explain it. "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" also falls into the same category. It was from the same Temps-Supremes album and was an album filler remake. Carol played on that version but didn't play either of the original Marvin Gaye or Diana Ross hit versions. Most of the titles described in the previous paragraph were produced by West Coast Motown producer Frank Wilson so we know they didn't come from Detroit.

e)Everyone connected with the company has always told me Motown liked to assign specific roles to everyone and all aspects of their operation. They didn't want live musicians doing studio work and vice versa, and with a few exceptions like Smokey, they didn't want artists to be songwriters and producers, etc. Everyone had a role. The Detroit musicians had a specific role. That was to cut the R&B singles. The West Coast musicians had an important role also but it was different. That role was what I explained in the above four points. --------------------------

[John K.]

There's no doubt (in my mind) that Jamerson did play on most of those tracks. Just listening to the tone and style played in those songs is enough proof for me.

[moley]

Wow. I didn't realise there was all that controversy over who played on those songs.

I also didn't realise Jamerson died a lonely alcoholic.

That's so sad.

[Woodchuck]

I know that she played on some songs, but I find it amazing that you can tell pick playing from Osborne, Squire, and Macca, but her pick playing sounds like fingerstyle. Not only that, but her pick playing sounds like the other basslines that Jamerson played with his fingers.

[Phil Smith]

From Carol's site:

CK: I think they did the bulk of Motown yes. But I think that they also
went out on the road and when Berry Gordy’s second ex-wife left they had nobody back there to put the arrangements together. I did a lot of
research as I wondered, ”why don’t they talk about the work we did?” Well Gordy does talk a little bit about the great tracks coming out of L.A. in 1964, in his book he talks about that. He doesn’t name any of the tunes or anything, but he does talk about that. He’s even been on film talking about it in an interview 1964. I think there’s something fishy about the writers of the tunes (their lawsuits etc.) because I’ve heard that George Clinton claims that he wrote some of the tunes. I don’t think that Gordy really knows who played on what anyway, I really don’t think so, because they don’t keep very good records. But there was one fellow that matched up a tape that I later recut with the
attitude “listen, if you don’t believe that I played on Bernadette,
listen to this.” I transcribed the part (it's correct, the way I
transcribed it) and re-cut the track. So then I get an email from this
fellow he says “you played great on Bernadette!” And I said “did you
doubt that I played on Bernadette?” he says “yes! I did as a matter of
fact.” He had some kind of tape machine... I don’t know the technical
name for it but he’s an engineer and had something electronically put on
my tape to try to disprove me and say “no, that is not Carol Kaye on
that played on the original Bernadette.” And he said that my tape... the
inflections, and the impact of all the sounds, all that matched up
perfectly to the original tape! He was just astounded! Because he was
trying to prove that it wasn’t me. (Laughs)

[jazzbo]

I don't know, Phil. I'm gonna take Slutsky's argument over Carol's. Simply because Slutsky was researching this and talking to many many people, not just Carol and one interviewer.

I also had a lengthy (internet-based) conversation with Harry Weinger, a producer of the Standing in the Shadows of Motown movie soundtrack. He had access to the masters for Bernadette, and it seems pretty difficult to credit them to anybody but James. Especially considering the fact that he listened to several different takes, to produce the instrumental version on the SITSOM soundtrack.

Still, while we'll never know for sure, the consensus amongst the industry insiders seems to give Jamerson credit for the line.

It's just too bad they didn't keep better records, huh?

[rickbass]

Hey! I did the bass solo on the original recording of The Who's "My Generation"!!!

Don't believe me??? Just ask John Entwistle.

[rickbass]

Originally posted by SMASH
...So that shows how accurate your claims are. Hmmph !

Well, SMASH ---- I invented Whistler, when I wasn't dating that babe Maggie Trudeau....before she hooked up with Jagger!!!

[JimK]

Originally posted by Woodchuck
...but her pick playing sounds like fingerstyle. Not only that, but her pick playing sounds like the other basslines that Jamerson played with his fingers.

Aye caramba...possibly the most sarcastic post I've read here.
Keep up the stellar work, 'Chuck!

[Davehenning]

I could be wrong, but I believe that Carol Kaye was the bassist on the music for the Brady Bunch show . Listen to the bumper music to get a great example of her tone. You can hear the flatwounds with the pick sound.

[JimK]

Agreed.
Listen to "Hikky-Burr" from Quincy Jones' Smackwater Jack album.
IMO(as I've said before)-
..the sorta "funk" feel played on the above tune is not the same as that of the Motown stuff.

[DigMe]

Yeaah!! Another Carol Kaye thread!



brad cook

Ahhh this brings me back to my very first post. I believe it was titled "Carol Kaye and her 'ridiculous advice'" in which I asked how she could say the wood of a bass has no effect on it's sound among other things...that thread is now locked.

The memories.

[Phil Smith]

Originally posted by JimK
Agreed.
Listen to "Hikky-Burr" from Quincy Jones' Smackwater Jack album.
IMO(as I've said before)-
..the sorta "funk" feel played on the above tune is not the same as that of the Motown stuff.

What about this clip of "I was made to love her" that's on her site?

Clip

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Phil Smith


What about this clip of "I was made to love her" that's on her site?

Clip

That would go more to the question: "Can" she play the line, not "did" she? Unless of course this is the bass track from the original recording

I wouldn't bet my life one way or another...there's just something about this recording that doesn't ring true vs. the full version I just listened to. Not sure how to describe it, there just seems that some of the "bounce" of the original line is missing, while the notes may indeed be the same. It's like whenever I've heard people, including myself, try to nail some of the stuff Anthony Jackson plays, or Rocco for that matter. The notes may be correct but the feel is off just enough to make me feel like I'm not listening to the originator.

If that makes sense.