Celtic bass players

Simone Bastardi · #1 07-01-2006, 05:36 PM

Is anybody here into celtic stuff? I was listening to a band called Fiddler's Bid, and their bass player was definitely grooving.
Also there's a local celtic band called Amadan that's pretty amazing.

The role of the bass in these bands seems kind of 'fresh' somehow. Different, but not off the wall.

Snarf · #2 07-01-2006, 06:26 PM

There are two Celtic players that are huge influences on me. One is John Saich, formerly of Capercaillie, the other is Wayne MacKenzie of Wolfstone. (Obviously, I prefer the Scottish to the Irish :P)

Simone Bastardi · #3 07-01-2006, 06:33 PM

I've got one song by Capercaillie. It's called "Both Sides the Tweed" or something. It was off a celtic compilation called "Scotland: the Real Music from Contemporary Caledonia".
But yeah, there was some pretty luscious fretless playing on that song (I think).

Snarf · #4 07-01-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simone Bastardi

I've got one song by Capercaillie. It's called "Both Sides the Tweed" or something. It was off a celtic compilation called "Scotland: the Real Music from Contemporary Caledonia".
But yeah, there was some pretty luscious fretless playing on that song (I think).

Mmm, yeah, very good interpretation of a traditional tune. But Capercaillie's absolute pure genius lies in their records from Delirium (1992ish I think) up until now. They really took on a world-fusion sound, and incorporated more muted trad aspects. They still play a mean reel set, though.

Jazz Ad · #5 07-02-2006, 04:41 AM

Check out Alain Genty.
He's a fantastic bass player, participating in many celtic music albums, frequently as a frontman.
He plays fretless a lot, using it to match non-tempered instruments.

Recommended : his duo CD with Tony McManus.

jerry · #6 07-02-2006, 06:27 AM

Mick Linden with the band Bad Haggis is a smokin' player! The band is a little bit Scottish and Irish I think, but a nice spin on world music. I have the CD ' Wine Dark Sea' and it has some hip fretted and fretless bass playing going on.

I-Love-Ratm · #7 07-02-2006, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simone Bastardi

Also there's a local celtic band called Amadan that's pretty amazing.

Lols Amadán is the Irish for a fool or stupid person.I guess it's the same thing.

Murf · #8 07-03-2006, 07:11 PM

Cant believe no-one has mentioned the mighty..mighty MOVING HEARTS!!!, seriously , these guys are the DADDYS of merging traditional Irish music with rock, funk and jazz...and the bassist Eoghan O Neil is an absolute monster fretless player.

Check out Moving hearts live for some incredible musicianship (and bass playing...the track "Downtown" in particular will knock yer socks off....also the album "Dark end of the street", theres a track on it called "Half-Moon" which has the most beautiful singing fretless lead melody I've ever heard.

an honourable mention must also go to Stocktons Wing for some incredible bass work by Tony Molloy..

Check 'em out!!!

DannyB · #9 07-03-2006, 07:17 PM

Mark Abraham from Enter the Haggis is pretty good.. ETH is (in my opinion) a great listen and an absolute blast live. Talented musicians, lots of humor and improv in between the songs.. check them out.

The Lurker · #10 07-04-2006, 01:33 PM

The Prodigals are my favorites.... Andrew Harkin was an absolute monster, though he's since left the band.....

Slapping, chords, harmonics, crazy-ass rhythms, 16thnote whizzing......... always something cool and interesting.

Alex E · #11 07-07-2006, 10:20 AM

I love Celtic music. I doubt I know the mainstream U.K. Stuff though. I'm more familiar with the hammered dulcimer, and guitar driven stuff that you get in those quaint little shops in the mountain towns of the Rockies.

Pardon my ignorance. WHAT IS THE STYLE OF CELTIC BASS? I would have figured that it's a lot of root - 5th playing to support the melody lines of the other instruments and the vocals, but reading the posts on this thread suggest it's more than that and that there are some great bassists in the genre.

The Lurker · #12 07-07-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex E

I love Celtic music. I doubt I know the mainstream U.K. Stuff though. I'm more familiar with the hammered dulcimer, and guitar driven stuff that you get in those quaint little shops in the mountain towns of the Rockies.

Pardon my ignorance. WHAT IS THE STYLE OF CELTIC BASS? I would have figured that it's a lot of root - 5th playing to support the melody lines of the other instruments and the vocals, but reading the posts on this thread suggest it's more than that and that there are some great bassists in the genre.

it's a pretty wide-open thing without a lot of set expectations, the only real restriction is how traditional you want to keep things. Lots of these guys tend to look at other instruments for inspiration, like the fiddle or bodhran, and use the bass for the same sort of musical role.

MixBass · #13 07-07-2006, 11:26 AM

Thanks for the props to Jerry! Good question Alex....
I've been in the "celtic" scene for a dozen or so years now w/ both Bad Haggis, and previously a great Scottish fiddlers band Skyedance.
Bass had few bragging rights in that world, sometimes someone would schlepp a UBS to a session and yes, mostly outline chord motion w/ roots and 5ths. There is also some cool left hand Cape Breton keyboard players that do a almost disco octave funky thing.
Early in the scene what struck me as odd was the rhy players (gtr,key} are the ones doing most of the improvising by reharming the tunes. The melody players have variations but the bulk of improv is the harmony.
The bass realm was largely undefined, so as Celtic music had a rebirth,bassists began pushing the boundaries and still are.
There are some great suggestions mentioned, Andrew is a monster, Alain w/ Tony(was on the last Skyedance cd) must be great. There's a cool Scottish groove/psychajam band, "Shooglenifty" , who are worth checking out too.Bakhiti Khumalo plays on some Eileen Eivers tracks.
Cheers

The Lurker · #14 07-07-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lurker

it's a pretty wide-open thing without a lot of set expectations, the only real restriction is how traditional you want to keep things. Lots of these guys tend to look at other instruments for inspiration, like the fiddle or bodhran, and use the bass for the same sort of musical role.

actually, I left out something very important. Know the difference between a jig and a reel and so on, and the usual progressions and structures. It's kinda like the 12-bar blues in some ways-- basic stuff (AABB structure of alternating pairs of 8-bar segments; 16 bars = 1 'step' for dance purposes) that you then pile all sorts of creativity onto. Oh yeah, and get sorted out with 12/8 time, 6/8 time, 2/4 time, etc. Most jigs are 6/8 or 12/8, but some are in 9/8. Reels are generally 4/4. A hornpipe is a 4/4 reel played with a swing. Tons of wiggle room on this sort of thing.....

Joebone · #15 07-07-2006, 08:42 PM

Been scoping out this scene for many years, but periodically, from some distance, so there are lots of gaps in my understanding.

That said, this music is very melody-driven, but some of those melodies have probably been evolving for over a thousand years, so the surviving lines that show up in related forms are "greatest hits" in a very serious way! The music is dance-oriented, and the time-feel is very sophisticated. I've always been blown away by the way that Irish and Scottish forms (yes, they are different, albeit related) feature the kind of 2/against/3 tension that you find in a lot of African and Afro-cuban forms If you want to test this, go out and get some Scottish bagpipe parade tunes, and dig the way the snare drummers imply six when they are in two, or two when they are in six! It's a particular kind of swing, and it is very funky!

But to me, this music has always seemed open to other influences. Case in point: bouzouki. What is the quintessential Greek fretted instrument doing in Celtic bands? When played by folks who adapt the sound and texture of the new instrument to traditional forms, a whole lot - check out DaDannan albums from the early '70's, and dig on the way traditionally-oriented musicians adapt a new axe and texture as their own, but in the context of their thing.

So, what does that mean for bass players? Lots of opportunity. I've heard some neat fretless on early-'90's Capercaillie albums; don't know who it is, but it sounds real good! I think fretless has a great deal of potential in this music because it allows for portamento and glissando that parallels what happens in a lot of the melodies, and also because it has a woody texture that complements the acoustic instruments without imposing electronic hemegony.

But it is a very fluid time for this music, as it redefines itself in a digital/electronic environment. I believe that bassists with a strong grounding in groove-based musics -- particularly african or afro-cuban -- but that reach out into this area by also immersing themselves in traditional melodies and forms will play a vital role in redefining this music as it continues to evolve. And while I am not keeping current, I've gotta wonder/expect that euro-inflected drum loops are seeping into this music.

So check out Ruben Blades, as everybody's favorite Panamanian-American salsero digs into Celtic roots (remember, the Galician region of Northwestern Spain is Celtic!) that resonate with Salsa in the context of various bands that know something about salsa and Celtic; or dig on Skyedance or Bad Haggis albums that feature Mick Linden's playing - he's on the celtic scene, but has some serious African roots! Avoid posers (Afro-Celtic Sound Foundation, or whatever they call themselves, comes to mind), listen to rootsy Irish and Scottish musics, rootsy other musics, and decide for yourself what might make sense.

We are lucky to live in a time when we can access so much music from so many places, and do our part to work with common points in creating new forms that are sensitive to the past but also look to the future. I'm confident that many folks are working this territory in the context of Celtic forms.

MixBass · #16 07-08-2006, 12:12 AM

In response to Joebone,indeed there's some cool electronic/loopy stuff goin on. There's a great fiddler/piper, Martyn Bennet, who has done some really cool stuff w/ a modern edge to it. I believe he's done a more trad project as of late but his techy cd's are all I've heard and they're great.
Ruben is on our{bad haggis} dvd singing and playing percussion and we're currently playing "primogenio" from his Mundo cd. It's a deep tune in every way, a blast to play.

Murf · #17 07-09-2006, 08:43 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention Eileen Iver's "Crossing the bridge" album...a very Trad album in the sense that a lot of the tunes are old Irish "Airs"....oh yeah and the drummer is the mighty Steve Gadd and the bassist is Bakhiti Kumalo (from Paul Simons "Graceland")

I love this album because it has the most incredible rhythm section (Gadd and Kumalo) who in fairness are not really known for their Irishness (Gadd is a New Yorker and Bakhiti was raised in Soweto) and yet they manage to come up with a very supportive and compelling rhythmic backing for the more traditional Irish tunes...ie their playing is not really what you'd expect in a trad Irish setting but for some reason it works beautifully.

great album..check it out..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=glance&n=5174

Snarf · #18 07-10-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lurker

actually, I left out something very important. Know the difference between a jig and a reel and so on, and the usual progressions and structures. It's kinda like the 12-bar blues in some ways-- basic stuff (AABB structure of alternating pairs of 8-bar segments; 16 bars = 1 'step' for dance purposes) that you then pile all sorts of creativity onto. Oh yeah, and get sorted out with 12/8 time, 6/8 time, 2/4 time, etc. Most jigs are 6/8 or 12/8, but some are in 9/8. Reels are generally 4/4. A hornpipe is a 4/4 reel played with a swing. Tons of wiggle room on this sort of thing.....

To say nothing of strathspeys, aires and retreats.

brianrost · #19 07-10-2006, 09:03 AM

Yo MixBass,

Cool to see you here. I play in a Breton (as in Brittany, not Cape Breton) band called Trouz Bras.

We were on the bill with you guys in Canton, MA back in June but missed seeing you due to all the rain

We'll be on the bill with you again in Cortland, NY in August looking forward to meeting you face to face!

Alex E · #20 07-10-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixBass

Thanks for the props to Jerry! Good question Alex....
I've been in the "celtic" scene for a dozen or so years now w/ both Bad Haggis, and previously a great Scottish fiddlers band Skyedance.
Bass had few bragging rights in that world, sometimes someone would schlepp a UBS to a session and yes, mostly outline chord motion w/ roots and 5ths. There is also some cool left hand Cape Breton keyboard players that do a almost disco octave funky thing.
Early in the scene what struck me as odd was the rhy players (gtr,key} are the ones doing most of the improvising by reharming the tunes. The melody players have variations but the bulk of improv is the harmony.
The bass realm was largely undefined, so as Celtic music had a rebirth,bassists began pushing the boundaries and still are.
There are some great suggestions mentioned, Andrew is a monster, Alain w/ Tony(was on the last Skyedance cd) must be great. There's a cool Scottish groove/psychajam band, "Shooglenifty" , who are worth checking out too.Bakhiti Khumalo plays on some Eileen Eivers tracks.
Cheers

Thanks to you, The Lurker, and JB for the great responses. I look forward to hearing more Celtic basslines. It's a fantastic form of music.